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Epic winter signal continues to beam, part IV


Baroclinic Zone

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By the way good call on the wrapped up low, I recall a few days back many were disagreeing with you about that, and you pointed out the arctic air and baroclinic zone for this to act upon. Great call.

thanks Libations

no victories yet though

Will and Scott's and Debbie's (and others) analysis regarding climo and usual outcomes in this type of event are the way to go from here......this is where new England weather gets way way more complicated than any other region IMO.

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yeah your area is probably pretty safe from too much mixing being so far NE. i'd feel pretty good if i lived in BOS right now.

i'm basically just hoping for a few inches tomorrow and a few inches wed. night. and that might be asking a lot.

the area i wouldn't want to have to forecast for is basically a rectangle bounded by a PVD to HFD line on the south and the pike to the north. north and east of there seems like a fairly safe bet. even if it mixes it's probably overcome and is 90% snow at least.

south of that rectangle, to me, it's tomorrow or bust really....though definitely some ice/sleet issues for CT on wed.

inside that rectangle...that area is a major bust zone one way or the other.

Agreed.

My biggest forecast concern now is how much sleet vs how much ZR on Wednesday. That seems to be the big question along with whether we see any PL taint tomorrow afternoon.

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whats up with the 4 rounds of snow?

I have no idea - frankly, I find all of this a bit much today, somewhat histrionic and over-reactionary. It is apparent that there is a serious risk in portions of the MV and lower Lakes ... how all that translates into NE is a big question mark with lots of now casting required, but we should not be overstating this for our local region(s) - at least not from what I am seeing.

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yeah your area is probably pretty safe from too much mixing being so far NE. i'd feel pretty good if i lived in BOS right now.

i'm basically just hoping for a few inches tomorrow and a few inches wed. night. and that might be asking a lot.

the area i wouldn't want to have to forecast for is basically a rectangle bounded by a PVD to HFD line on the south and the pike to the north. north and east of there seems like a fairly safe bet. even if it mixes it's probably overcome and is 90% snow at least.

south of that rectangle, to me, it's tomorrow or bust really....though definitely some ice/sleet issues for CT on wed.

inside that rectangle...that area is a major bust zone one way or the other.

Couldn't agree more...felt this way all along.

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I view the BOX map as being the at the upper edge of the range of plausibility....."if everything breaks right"......I'm almost positive that back will be trimmed back a few inches across the board.

I see no reason to deviate from my original thinking as the pike being the focus of a rather large SF gradient.

i betcha you are going to nail this one.....seriously.

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I view the BOX map as being the at the upper edge of the range of plausibility....."if everything breaks right"......I'm almost positive that back will be trimmed back a few inches across the board.

I see no reason to deviate from my original thinking as the pike being the focus of a rather large SF gradient.

Ray, look at the updated grids from 1:05 PM.

They're calling for 5-7 inches tomorrow; that's why there's a bump in the overall totals.

I imagine it'll bump down with the afternoon update... but that's, apparently, the logic behind the totals.

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thanks Libations

no victories yet though

Will and Scott's and Debbie's (and others) analysis regarding climo and usual outcomes in this type of event are the way to go from here......this is where new England weather gets way way more complicated than any other region IMO.

absolutely from will east to boston up to kgay north and east thats where the loves at besides the berks and mountains of course. Thats where the cold air gets entrenched, one of those rare cases where Taunton snows while Stafford Springs Pings.

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yeah your area is probably pretty safe from too much mixing being so far NE. i'd feel pretty good if i lived in BOS right now.

i'm basically just hoping for a few inches tomorrow and a few inches wed. night. and that might be asking a lot.

the area i wouldn't want to have to forecast for is basically a rectangle bounded by a PVD to HFD line on the south and the pike to the north. north and east of there seems like a fairly safe bet. even if it mixes it's probably overcome and is 90% snow at least.

south of that rectangle, to me, it's tomorrow or bust really....though definitely some ice/sleet issues for CT on wed.

inside that rectangle...that area is a major bust zone one way or the other.

And me being 25 miles E of PVD? Maybe a little more Sleet/ZR?

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My final call:

Tommorow: 4-6"

Wednesday: 7-11"

Final: 11-17".

I hope the higher end of those work out because WOW this storm is a hype machine. I mean people at school were expecting 2 snow days and a delay. I mean, it could happen, but still. My mom said she heard multiple people at walmart that they were concerned about where to put 20+" of snow.

She said she told them it was coming on two seperate days and probably wouldn't hit 20" between the two haha.

Anyway, :snowman:.

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Agreed.

My biggest forecast concern now is how much sleet vs how much ZR on Wednesday. That seems to be the big question along with whether we see any PL taint tomorrow afternoon.

kind of a scary set-up for parts of your area.

you wonder if wednesday is one of those types of days where the transition is pretty quick such that BDL goes from S+ to IP to FZRA in a relatively short time but then is basically stuck at like 24F for hours.

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Its gonna be something if places like SNH and SVT and NMA can pull off like 7-8 inches of snow tomorrow like the Nam is saying. Then 2' will Probably happen in a lot of locations there.. MHT won't jackpot, they never do, but that doesn't means that 24 inches can't happen cause some places in NY and VT will see 30

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Looking around at forecasts, there are some big numbers being floated around. BOX's map, ALY's 15-30" warning, even BTV seems excessively high for up here.

On the models it does look like there is a limitation as far as how much snow can possibly fall (duh) but when this system passes us in New England it looks to be zipping right along. There's really only a 6 to maybe 9 hour (at the most) period of moderate to heavy snow on Wednesday for all involved... it is going to need to rip at like 2"/hr for at least some portion of that time in order to get to some of these higher forecast numbers.

It is still a SWFE and while a tremendous amount of moisture will fall out of the sky thanks to strong isentropic lift, some of these forecasts would lead you to believe we have a stalled coastal low.

I still like the lower end of the ranges forecast by the NWS offices, even up here. Snow growth should deteriorate, too, as the -12C to -18C dendritic layer lifts thanks to warming at H7-H75.

Amazingly complex, yet interesting storm to try and forecast.

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kind of a scary set-up for parts of your area.

you wonder if wednesday is one of those types of days where the transition is pretty quick such that BDL goes from S+ to IP to FZRA in a relatively short time but then is basically stuck at like 24F for hours.

Yeah if places start or go quickly to ZR it's going to be a problem. If we are half PL and half ZR it won't be that big of an impact I don't think.

Significant accumulating snow on Wednesday in CT seems unlikely for most places other than along the CT border.

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Looking around at forecasts, there are some big numbers being floated around. BOX's map, ALY's 15-30" warning, even BTV seems excessively high for up here.

On the models it does look like there is a limitation as far as how much snow can possibly fall (duh) but when this system passes us in New England it looks to be zipping right along. There's really only a 6 to maybe 9 hour (at the most) period of moderate to heavy snow on Wednesday for all involved... it is going to need to rip at like 2"/hr for at least some portion of that time in order to get to some of these higher forecast numbers.

It is still a SWFE and while a tremendous amount of moisture will fall out of the sky thanks to strong isentropic lift, some of these forecasts would lead you to believe we have a stalled coastal low.

I still like the lower end of the ranges forecast by the NWS offices, even up here. Snow growth should deteriorate, too, as the -12C to -18C dendritic layer lifts thanks to warming at H7-H75.

Amazingly complex, yet interesting storm to try and forecast.

Remember it includes tuesday...so its mostly 12-15" in the route 2 area for Wednesday.

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Its gonna be something if places like SNH and SVT and NMA can pull off like 7-8 inches of snow tomorrow like the Nam is saying. Then 2' will Probably happen in a lot of locations there.. MHT won't jackpot, they never do, but that doesn't means that 24 inches can't happen cause some places in NY and VT will see 30

:huh: not sure that reasoning works the way you think it works...

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And me being 25 miles E of PVD? Maybe a little more Sleet/ZR?

i guess i would pretty much include you in that zone of uncertainty. just seems like a really big bust potential either way. i don't know which way i would lean for that area. it's a tough call.

going back to what scooter posted a little while ago...if you think about the characteristics of the SWFE...the one thing that always sticks out to me is their propensity to over perform in the initial stages...but that is always countered by how fast the mid-level warming is. seems like it's always a race between 2-3" / hr snows and a 3 mile visibility with IP.

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