Mikehobbyst Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 :sun: :sun: The rapid solar declination climb period just began, we gain a degree every 5 days appx now. Every weekend the shadow lengths and lighting at solar noon change pretty significantly. Sublimation rates are increasing, and could remove several inches of snow per day by the middle of February. 28 degrees with full sun and no wind will feel comfortable on the south side or sunny side of the street in two weeks. Trust me it happens each year. This will be the ultimate demise of the snowpack, regardless of the pattern. That is the one definate we do have. We are up to 32 degree angle, in four weeks we are at 43. Just like a trip to northern Florida right this second will happen in four weeks time. Keeping things constant, each weekend passing is like driving south 275 miles right now in terms of solar noon angle. Interesting prospective on this. We are finally out of the <30 degree sun angle for about a week already and very happy already. Big difference in lighting already. Per 12/20 comparision NYC is having the angle that NC receives, so progression has commenced on the solar front. Maybe it will get its spots back too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombo82685 Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 where the heck do you come up with these threads seriously..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmokeEater Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris L Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 The rapid climb period just began, we gain a degree every 5 days appx now. Every weekend the shadow lengths and lighting at solar noon change pretty significantly. Sublimation rates are increasing, and could remove several inches of snow per day. 28 degrees with full sun and no wind will feel comfortable in four weeks on the south side or sunny side of the street. Trust me it happens each year. This will be the ultimate demise of the snowpack, regardless of the pattern. That is the one definate we do have. Sir, we understand the vaule of sun angle-degree. Why must you post this? I mean... No offense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJO812 Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 I don't care about the sun angle. It's not even the middle of the winter. Nice info but I the sun angle theory is bull**** when it comes to snow. If it comes down hard enough, it will stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sferic Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 I don't care about the sun angle. It's not even the middle of the winter. Nice info but I the sun angle theory is bull**** when it comes to snow. If it comes down hard enough, it will stick. So how does the snowpack in the Adirondacks survive so long, is there a difference in angle with 250-300 miles northward distance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stormchaser Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 I mean... no offense sir but we understand, it happens every year. This is like saying the sun will set at night and rise in the morning. I dont understand the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famartin Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Multiple Reasons: 1/ It is further to the north and consequently colder...generally north of the 43rd parallel. 2/ Elevation...peaks in these mountains top the 5000' mark...elevated locations are colder in most situations...air temperatures tend to decrease 1 degree F for every 300 feet you ascend in the troposphere in non-inversion situations. 3/ It snows a lot there...much more than any city in the Northeast. Annual snowfall generally is in the 100" to 200" range with even more in the higher mountains...with that much snow falling...and virtually no rain from December through March...obviously the snow is going nowhere. 4/ The entire region is rural...no urban influences that might harm snow. 5/ Those north facing mountainsides are hidden from the sun...consequently snow can remain on them well into June. 6/ Because the region is mountainous, it sees less sunshine than flat areas because the topography causes clouds to build up through a process known as orographic lift. The persisitent cloudiness plays a role in keeping the area cooler and maintaining snow on the ground. 7/ The fact that there is a snowpack so much of the year plays a role in maintaining the snowpack...snow, being white, has what is called a "high albedo" or reflectivity, of sunlight. The fact that warmth and heat are reflected rather than absorbed keeps the atmosphere colder than it would be were bare ground present. The reason you highlighted is the number one reason. As the snow settles, partially melts and refreezes, it turns into a mini glacier. A mini glacier is a lot harder to melt as opposed to fresh snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famartin Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 I don't care about the sun angle. It's not even the middle of the winter. Nice info but I the sun angle theory is bull**** when it comes to snow. If it comes down hard enough, it will stick. However, the staying power of fresh snow is decreasing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phlwx Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 where the heck do you come up with these threads seriously..... This should be merged with his other threads on sun declination. He has a few of them floating around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellice Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 I liked this post! Sure, I know the sun angle increases as January passes, but I had not seen it put in quite this way before. The progression of seasons is very interesting to me, both the foundation in the movements of sun and earth, and the role of climate, specific weather systems, microclimates, early and late "signifiers," and all the rest of the "stuff" that makes up the natural world, the real world. And for early spring gardeners (those peas and spinach and greens, lol), it is important to think about this kind of information. And Mike's post raises a further question for me - he speaks of a "rapid solar declination climb" -- which implies that there is a period of "slow solar declination climb." I had thought the sun's climb, as well as its descent in fall, was more or less constant -- is that not the case? Because, if the sun accelerates its climb at the beginning of February, that means all sorts of things out in the woods, that means I should look more carefully for them then. Anticipation is part of the fun of being a naturalist! I'm very curious about that question, whether the sun accelerates its climb in February, as opposed to January. Thanks, Mike for raising an interesting point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famartin Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 I liked this post! Sure, I know the sun angle increases as January passes, but I had not seen it put in quite this way before. The progression of seasons is very interesting to me, both the foundation in the movements of sun and earth, and the role of climate, specific weather systems, microclimates, early and late "signifiers," and all the rest of the "stuff" that makes up the natural world, the real world. And for early spring gardeners (those peas and spinach and greens, lol), it is important to think about this kind of information. And Mike's post raises a further question for me - he speaks of a "rapid solar declination climb" -- which implies that there is a period of "slow solar declination climb." I had thought the sun's climb, as well as its descent in fall, was more or less constant -- is that not the case? Because, if the sun accelerates its climb at the beginning of February, that means all sorts of things out in the woods, that means I should look more carefully for them then. Anticipation is part of the fun of being a naturalist! I'm very curious about that question, whether the sun accelerates its climb in February, as opposed to January. Thanks, Mike for raising an interesting point! Yes, the sun's climb does accelerate and decelerate, at a comparable rate (I believe) to the rate at which the day length changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cablesmike Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 The Sun's Climb from it's lowest point at the solstice is extremely slow. It starts to pick up as time as goes on, and it is at it quickest closest to the equinox. That obviously also happens in The Summer but the other away around. Great post for people who hate winter. Just an assurance that the pattern will break eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sferic Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Multiple Reasons: 1/ It is further to the north and consequently colder...generally north of the 43rd parallel. 2/ Elevation...peaks in these mountains top the 5000' mark...elevated locations are colder in most situations...air temperatures tend to decrease 1 degree F for every 300 feet you ascend in the troposphere in non-inversion situations. 3/ It snows a lot there...much more than any city in the Northeast. Annual snowfall generally is in the 100" to 200" range with even more in the higher mountains...with that much snow falling...and virtually no rain from December through March...obviously the snow is going nowhere. 4/ The entire region is rural...no urban influences that might harm snow. 5/ Those north facing mountainsides are hidden from the sun...consequently snow can remain on them well into June. 6/ Because the region is mountainous, it sees less sunshine than flat areas because the topography causes clouds to build up through a process known as orographic lift. The persisitent cloudiness plays a role in keeping the area cooler and maintaining snow on the ground. 7/ The fact that there is a snowpack so much of the year plays a role in maintaining the snowpack...snow, being white, has what is called a "high albedo" or reflectivity, of sunlight. The fact that warmth and heat are reflected rather than absorbed keeps the atmosphere colder than it would be were bare ground present. Thank you William for the thoroughly thought out explanation. As others say here too; you know your stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkviking Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 In Port Jefferson, on LI north shore, it's now 36, and the sun strength is amazingly stronger than a month ago. I have only inner layer of north face on and I'm plenty warm walking around. I was in a bit of a tizzy bc I'm going to Nola on Friday and see it'll be cold, ie 50s, but I bet after what we've gone through it'll feel plenty warm. I'm going to pack shorts for heck of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cfa Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 I love this topic, Spring is coming. It's only 26 degrees but there's puddles from the snow/ice, the sun isn't even high in the sky yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe1946 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 I bet the sun will be much higher in the sky by June this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KEITH L.I Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 I love this topic, Spring is coming. It's only 26 degrees but there's puddles from the snow/ice, the sun isn't even high in the sky yet. at the end of July we will bring this topic back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boreal Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 less than 145 days until days grow shorter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazzo83 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 where the heck do you come up with these threads seriously..... Honestly. What in the hell is he talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boreal Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Honestly. What in the hell is he talking about? On the one hand, its a legitimate thread for this type of forum. On the other hand, given the timing of the start of the thread and the fact that it was not posted in the general forum, it may just be Stealth Trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiker Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Yes, the sun's climb does accelerate and decelerate, at a comparable rate (I believe) to the rate at which the day length changes. Yes, you're correct. I believe the rate of change (for both the sun angle and day length) follows a sine curve. That is, the rate of change is flat at both solstices, and maximum at both equinoxes. Check out the link here, for the US time - the picture shows a sine wave depicting night and day. This can extrapolated to the day length changes, as well. It's all due to the fact that Gaia ain't flat. Pretty cool!!! http://www.time.gov/...stern/d/-5/java Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voyager Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 less than 145 days until days grow shorter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pamela Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Thank you William for the thoroughly thought out explanation. As others say here too; you know your stuff. You're welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earthlight Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Again, awesome thread. Sun definitely felt warmer today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTrials Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 LOLZ. Usually these threads start in January, good to see we didn't get one until February. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 LOLZ. Usually these threads start in January, good to see we didn't get one until February. haha he started it on Jan 30 so I guess the pattern continues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTrials Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 haha he started it on Jan 30 so I guess the pattern continues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sn0waddict Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Hey, uh so I looked out my window and it's dark. Is this the work of sun declination?? Should I be worried?? Is the sun ever going to come back!11??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundog Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 It felt really warm today in the sun. I had a black jacket on too and I had to roll down my window in the car so I could cool off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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