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January 26-27 Snowstorm Disco V


Baroclinic Zone

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SW Jerry, No model shows a two part storm...you know what I mean. Instead of the initial pulse getting entrained into the entire system it's ending up a little east. So when the entire thing WRAPS UP LATER (YOUR WORDS), it's not able to produce as much snow as it was earlier as far west. The CCB gets ripping, we get our snow, the kicker comes in and closes the door.

I'm done fighting over it, the Euro didn't hold serve, tick west, or anything else but move east, and shift the dynamics ESE in far western areas.

It moved towards consensus as everything moved towards it.

I think we can agree on the bold. But my view is (excluding NAM) consensus moved more towards it than vice versa. I think Will used 70/30 and that's probably right. Like you say...we have a nice system so no point in beating this horse. Euro 6 days ago had it and progged it while GFS was OTS off of SC. Euro adjusted about 3 days ago and held and made this adjustment towards the consensus today. If the storm were today, Euro basically wins while every other global loses.

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Not according to Will. Said well over an inch qpf for me. We're fine relax

actually it trended slightly east. there is some concern that meso's are SE. mets are hedging 70/30 in favor of euro..that would imply euro ticks SE one more time.....Nam ticks NW twice. untill they meet in the middle. so you may not wanna be on the border now.

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actually it trended slightly east. there is some concern that meso's are SE. mets are hedging 70/30 in favor of euro..that would imply euro ticks SE one more time.....Nam ticks NW twice. untill they meet in the middle. so you may not wanna be on the border now.

I don't see anyone implying that. and I'm not on the border of anything

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I think we can agree on the bold. But my view is (excluding NAM) consensus moved more towards it than vice versa. I think Will used 70/30 and that's probably right. Like you say...we have a nice system so no point in beating this horse. Euro 6 days ago had it and progged it while GFS was OTS off of SC. Euro adjusted about 3 days ago and held and made this adjustment towards the consensus today. If the storm were today, Euro basically wins while every other global loses.

It doesn't matter for you probably one bit. But it did matter for a lot of people to the west who were holding onto the idea that it was going to be close/exactly right. As John said maybe this is the red flag move too, we will know tonight.

It didn't... it cut back for you and me and we're right on the boundary of getting screwed

Shhh. How sharp is the gradient now in NW CT and western MA?

--

Take away the GFS speed bias and we have very good consensus among the globals. Hopefully we see a nudge NW with the 18z NCEP models and no further ticks SE.

NCEP says toss the euro and the GFS and go with the GGEM/UK, so the debate over the euro v gfs is kind of moot anyway.

MODEL DIAGNOSTIC DISCUSSION

NWS HYDROMETEOROLOGICAL PREDICTION CENTER CAMP SPRINGS MD

140 PM EST TUE JAN 25 2011

VALID JAN 25/1200 UTC THRU JAN 29/0000 UTC

...SEE NOUS42 KWNO ADMNFD FOR THE STATUS OF THE UPPER AIR

INGEST...

12Z FINAL MODEL PREFERENCES

ANY INITIALIZATION ERRORS WITH THE NAM AND GFS DO NOT APPEAR TO

SIGNIFICANTLY IMPACT THEIR SOLUTIONS.

...LOW PRESSURE SYSTEM LIFTING UP THE ATLANTIC COAST DAYS 1 AND

2...

PREFERENCE: GEM GLOBAL OR UKMET

THE NAM AND GFS TRACK THIS CYCLONE EAST OF THE ECMWF...WHICH POPS

THE CONSOLIDATED SURFACE LOW RIGHT ON THE DELMARVA SHORE 00Z/27

THURSDAY. THE GEM GLOBAL AND UKMET FORCE THE LOW JUST OFF THE

SOUTHERN DELMARVA PENINSULA BY THE START OF DAY 2...WHICH FITS

CLIMATOLOGY THE BEST FOR THE SYNOPTIC PATTERN WHICH HAS FINALLY

SETTLED OUT AFTER DAYS OF DISPARATE MODEL SOLUTIONS.

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EURO qpfs were requested but too much distracting bickering on this thread...

Tombo in the Philly thread was nice enough to deliver... QPF estimates from the 12Z EURO:

"they are in this ball park

bed .8-1

bos 1.1-1.2

orh 1- 1.1

chh 1.2-1.3

tan 1.2-1.3

pym 1.2-1.3

ewb 1.35-1.45"

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I thought what Will and Scott implied was use a blend 70% Euro, 30% other Globals. NAM ATT discarded but we'll see.

how has ukie and GEM been trending?

the ukie

is this strange for the NCEP TO go with uncle ukie.

Even odder that they go with the GGEM UK combo but they have their reasons.

EURO qpfs were requested but too much distracting bickering on this thread...

Tombo in the Philly thread was nice enough to deliver... QPF estimates from the 12Z EURO:

"they are in this ball park

bed .8-1

bos 1.1-1.2

orh 1- 1.1

chh 1.2-1.3

tan 1.2-1.3

pym 1.2-1.3

ewb 1.35-1.45"

Tombo is great, thanks very much and thank him.

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492 thickness down to TN....wowzers!

I was driving around Brookline today and I couldn't believe some of the side streets....I'm not sure where they are going to put another 6-12", but most of those little streets will be impassable.

Liking where I am for this one...might be in the bullseye for qpf and just N of the mixing

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No mention of amounts in the latest from BOX ...... Interesting

AREA FORECAST DISCUSSION

NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE TAUNTON MA

158 PM EST TUE JAN 25 2011

.SYNOPSIS...

SOMEWHAT MILDER AIR WILL WORK INTO THE REGIONTODAY...BRINGING

SNOW SHOWERS. DEVELOPING LOW PRESSURE FROM THE GULF STATESWILL

WORK UP THE EASTERN SEABOARD WEDNESDAY...PASSING SOUTH OF

NANTUCKET THURSDAY. THISCOASTAL STORM WILL BRING THE POTENTIAL

FOR STRONG WINDS...HEAVY SNOW AND OR MIXED PRECIPITATION TOTHE

REGION FROM LATE WEDNESDAY THROUGH THURSDAY MORNING. DRY AND

SEASONABLY COLD WEATHER RETURNS LATE THIS WEEK.

.NEAR TERM /UNTIL 6 PM THIS EVENING/...

LIGHT SNOW SHOWERS CONTINUE TO MOVE ACROSS PORTIONS OF RHODE

ISLAND AND SOUTHEAST MASSACHUSETTS...MAINLYSOUTH AND EAST OF

I-95. SNOW SHOULD DIMINISH BY 21Z WITH ADDITIONALACCUMULATIONS OF

LESS THAN AN INCH EXPECTED.

RECEIVED A MESSAGE FROM MASS DEPT OF ENVIRONMENTALPROTECTION FOR

AN AIR QUALITY ALERT DAY FOR THE SPRINGFIELD AREA THROUGH

MIDNIGHT. HAVE SENT OUT THE STATEMENT WITH THIS INFORMATION.

.SHORT TERM /6 PM THIS EVENING THROUGH 6 PM WEDNESDAY/...

TONIGHT...

WEAK SURFACE HIGH PRESSURE AND ANTICYCLONIC FLOW WILL ALLOWFOR

MOSTLY CLEAR SKIES TO PREVAIL. GOOD RADIATIONAL COOLINGCONDITIONS

EXPECTED ACROSS THE INTERIOR WITH DEEP SNOWPACK...THUS SIDEDWITH

THE COLDER MAV TEMPERATURE GUIDANCE.

WEDNESDAY...

INCREASING CLOUDS EXPECTED AHEAD OF DEVELOPING LOW PRESSURE

OFF THE MID ATLANTIC COAST. SOME TIMINGDIFFERENCES EXIST REGARDING

THE ONSET OF PRECIPITATION WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON. NAM/ECMWFARE 3-6

HOURS SLOWER THAN THE GFS. INHERENT DRY AIRMASS MAY CAUSE ADELAY

IN ARRIVAL OF PRECIPITATION ESPECIALLY NORTH OF THE MASSPIKE.

HAVE INCREASING CHANCES FOR PRECIPITATION DURING THEAFTERNOON

HOURS BUT THE BULK OF THIS WILL LIKELY NOT ARRIVE UNTILAFTER DARK.

LONG TERM /WEDNESDAY NIGHT THROUGH TUESDAY/...

25/00Z MODELS HAVE COME INTO BETTER AGREEMENT WITH THEIRTRACKS OF

A LOW PRESSURE LATE WEDNESDAY INTO THURSDAY...BUT STILLDIFFER

CONSIDERABLY WITH THEIR TIMING. CONFIDENCE HAS GROWN ENOUGHTO

ISSUE A WINTER STORM WATCH FOR MOST OF SOUTHERN NEW ENGLAND.

THINKING THE BRUNT OF THIS EVENT WILL BE WEDNESDAYNIGHT...BUT

WANTED TO PAD THE START AND ENDING TIMES TO ACCOUNT FOR THE

AFOREMENTIONED TIMING DIFFERENCES.

THINKING THERE WILL BE A PERIOD OF MIXED PRECIPITATION ALONGTHE

SOUTH COAST OF MA...ASWELL AS PORTIONS OF RI AND PERHAPS NORTHERN

CT AS WELL. HOW LONG THIS LASTS IS STILL IN DOUBT. THATSAID...DO

THINK SUFFICIENT COLD AIR ARRIVES WEDNESDAY EVENING TOCHANGE ALL

MIXED PRECIPITATION TO SNOW BY THURSDAY MORNING.

WILL ALSO SEE N-NE WINDS INCREASING DURING WEDNESDAYNIGHT...WITH

GUSTS UP TO 35 KT ALONG THE E COAST AND ESPECIALLY ACROSS CAPE COD

AND THE ISLANDS. LOW TOMEDIUM PROBABILITY OF WIND ADVISORY FOR

THESE LOCATIONS.

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The h5 confluence to the N is scary for this area. We've been burned by it in the recent past. It argues for a sharp QPF gradient at least.

On the other hand, seasonal trend is to tick NW in the last 24 hours, which is consistent with underestimating the SE ridge in la nina and we've seen 'western side of the envelope' tracks. Not to mention, there's no monster block in place like last year, and we verified an advisory last night from out nowhere. Looks like a classic setup. I remain pretty confident of warning criteria despite the american models.

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