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This thread should essentially close out the multi event thread, transferring event comments and serving to report snow/ice obs later today-tonight, rainfall totals sometime Sunday, followed by wind gust reports 50MPH or greater including damaging wind late Sunday afternoon-midday Monday. One graphic added is the ECMWF EPS max wind gust graphic 1PM Sunday-!PM Monday... highest gusts showing up on the ridges and mainly late Sunday afternoon-midday Monday. Sometimes this graphic can be too strong with wind gusts 5 to 10 MPH less than modeled... still even if its a little less, the strong wind is probably gong to impact some of us late Sunday-Monday morning. The hope for our I84 friends is that the east facing slopes of the hills above 1000 feet will see temps rise above freezing tomorrow morning to melt snow and ice off the branches (watch for falling frozen debris) or widespread power outages would develop, especially Catskills-Litchfield Hills and possibly the northern Poconos. As it stands, some power outages expected here and there and probably a good idea to shelter everything that is vulnerable and preventable from some damage. AI ECMWF 2m 6 hr temps have risen a bit cyclically through the 00z/15 cycle but still looks problematic whether it rises above freezing north of I94 Sunday. No matter, that region along and N of I84 should try to safely remove snow and ice early Sunday afternoon from travel ways, or it will probably freeze solid Sunday evening and remain through the work week.
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Best chance for a total of 6+" inland with NYC-LI-coasts? Ensembles are added. All graphics should self identify. Ensemble snowfall is the more conservative positive snow depth change and prefer to minimize overhyping despite a decent looking pattern. It and the NWS Blend of Models snowfall does include some snow from this weekend, but the bulk is with in the Feb 11-15 period. One thing I dont like about the BOM is that it has averaged snowfall across all of LI instead of adjusted toward the ensembles. The BOM may be right if two of these decent events are all snow for LI. Included also is the Blend of Models somewhat realistic expectation of a little freezing rain, probably better than the EPS. The WPC 6-7 outlooks are attached and finally the conservative WSSI-P which implies an I95 modest snowstorm (low probs moderate in this example for D6) Generally cold high pressure should extend from the Canadian Rockies across southern Canada in this period with an average 150KT 200MB jet core persistently centered near Boston. That places the NYC subforum on the edge of the RRQ of the upper level jet, rather close to the core, so that in my opinion, some southward suppression might occur in the surface pattern during this time frame or the NAEFS (multi ensemble inclusive of the CMCE-GEFS) might change as the models change over the next week. Ensemble guidance basically is producing 1+" of qpf for our area in this time frame. All yours! 713P/6
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Most of the snow tonight. Areas of light snow, flurries or possibly freezing drizzle may linger after sunrise Wednesday. NWS 08z/11 ensemble probs for 1 and 4" attached. At 734AM I added what I call the slippery factor--WSSI-P, run off 05z data... the red is 60% or greater chance of MINOR impacts overnight. I sort of like this product. Edited previously intended headline start time at 327P/11 At 410AM have extended the headline into the second event since this reduces thread bounce, AND, I think that "parts" of our NYC subforum including LI, NJ, PA will see an additional few tenths of an inch of snow today with ice pellet very minor amounts this evening, and of course the obligatory icing well inland overnight. Don't be surprised at a little drizzle-freezing drizzle for LI and the NJ coast today. The additional snow may not stick very well during the daylight hours as temps rise. Still suggest cleaning the snowboard AT MOST once every 6 hours and see what you get. I hope we get some decent rainfall overnight. Thank you for all your shares. I am considering starting the 19th-20th snow storm-event late this morning.
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Discuss the possibilities of little more snow-sleet for NYC-LI. Please check back on the 7th for the review of the attached guidance, maybe used as a learning tool. Ensembles temporarily trended a little colder so that NYC CP-parts of LI may receive 1/2-1.5" of snow sleet to start before a change to rain. Most of the precipitation looks to occur 6PM Wed-Noon Thursday, starting as snow or sleet then changing to rain by sunrise Thursday NYC-LI, but freezing rain-sleet interior, northwest of I95. That freezing rain sleet may linger into midday over parts of nw NJ/interior se NYS, interior CT and the Poconos where mixing warmer air to the surface should be minimal until sometime Thursday night (baggy flow Thursday morning). Time of transition from snow-sleet to rain-ice will determine amounts of snow/sleet. This event may impact (slow travel-transportation delays) during the Wednesday evening commute depending on the start time, and "should" leave at least delays and/or widespread cancellations for the interior early Thursday. Total melted qpf should range between 0.3-0.8".. with the GEFS the least. QPF factors into the resultant amount of the various wintry elements. Ensembles already included are recently colder prob of >1" snowfall (includes sleet) from the EPS, CMCE, GEFS. the EPS 06z/6 2m temps, the ensemble chance of >0.10 freezing rain qpf from both the 12z and 18z cycles. Those probs have been consistently very high for the past several days---BUT caution on interpreting .10 qpf as .10 glaze. It could be significantly less depending on temp/rates of fall, drop size. I also added the EPS raw qpf interpreted as freezing rain. Ensembles show a primary low moving up into the eastern Great Lakes-upstate NY by dawn Thursday with a warm frontal wave moving northeast off the NJ coast, possibly maintaining itself through forenoon Thursday passing e of LI, then merging with the primary low in eastern Canada Thursday night and returning subfreezing temps to the area by daybreak Friday. The amount of subfreezing cold that returns in the wake of the departing eastern Canada low on Friday, will help determine what happens here next weekend (Feb 8-9). If somehow the primary near the eastern Great Lakes is dominant and there is no warm frontal wave of low pressure coming up the NJ coast, then snow-sleet amounts would be less. Final 757P/2. 702 PM Tue 2/4: headline delayed the start time about 12 hours to midnight Wed night. Bulk of the wintry mix probably occurs in a 6 hour window roughly 4AM-10AM. All of the NYC subforum and surrounding areas near and inland from I95 are covered by a winter wx advisory issued at 330PM Tuesday. Several hours of slippery conditions in snow ice are also expected in NYC and Long Island near dawn-sunrise Thursday before a change to rain. The delay was caused by the narrow snow streak in se PA-MD-DE Wednesday morning not advancing northeastward until Wednesday night.
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This coming weekend Feb 8-9 NORTHEAST USA near and west of I95 through the 184 corridor: Another mixed wintry event with delays and cancellations likely, especially later Saturday into Sunday morning. Timing might be in error as we're 5 days in advance. QPF is ensembled similarly to the 2/5-6 event, somewhere between 1/4-3/4". For now the attached ensembles favor I84 corridor down to the interior of I95 with more risk of rain and melting NYC-LI. The presented ensembles can be in significant max latitude (n/s) axis error 5-6 days in advance of the occurrence. It is a trackable event, in what looks like a train of events for February...some of which can veer off and disappoint but we're at least in the wintry mix game. Ensembles include the midnight 2/3 WPC D6 outlook confidence of >1/4" melted water equivalent snow sleet. (blue is greater than 50%, pretty good for D6. Other ensembles 24 hr snowfall (10 to 1 ratio), an ensemble that only shows positive snow depth change, and an ensemble probability of >0.10 qpf that is ice. This usually shrinks a bit as we draw closer to T0. 752A Mon 2/3/25
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While most events are shaky on snowfall for LI due to thermal profiles, there should be a pool of subfreezing air covering the interior northeast during this event, available for making a messy winter storm, even down into NYC (NOT a KU). The remnants of this mornings CA 5H closed low will weaken as it heads eastward into the confluence zone over the mid and North Atlantic states this coming weekend. The cold boundary layer airmass that arrives Thursday the 30th after passage of an Alberta clipper off the Maine coast, should be available to interact with the Gulf moisture and lift generated moisture caused by the thickness overrunning ahead of the weakening upper low. Modeling is implying a secondary CFP Friday evening that will allow that BL cold in NYS-New England to be nearby. Precipitation type will be problematic due to the thermal profiles but the attached ensemble guidance suggests that this system is of trackable interest for our NYC subforum -both for travel into the interior where impact will be greater, and maybe witnessing some snow accumulation in NYC-though melting is anticipated on LI at times. Can our NYC 24-25 winter snowfall increase an inch or 2" next weekend (corrected my prior CP snowfall error). Ensembles should be self explanatory. I did add the EPS probability of >0.10 freezing rain Headline change below at 730AM Wed 1/29 for failed 7 day lead time on wintry accums NYC-LI. Discussion-OBS Jan 31-Feb 2 rain, potential minor interior impact mixed wintry events, mainly Fri Jan 31, Sun afternoon-eve Feb 2. Failed 7 day lead time LI winter impact. Events accelerated 18 hours and warmer-further north than modeling posted below in this thread indicated. Wrap up hat happened will post Monday Feb 3. P5 shows the NAEFS speed change. Self rated C-performance (see p 15 results against the ensembles posted here). Back end snow event entire subforum salvaged a terrible start. Max axis was significantly further north than ensembled. We had the Fri morning ice delays e PA/NJ/se NYS (24 hrs earlier than anticipated in this thread, but nothing else til the Sunday evening climatologically normal 1-3" snow event.
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Winter discussion/outlook for January 2025.
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Let the speculation begin!
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The above hopefully encapsulates the likelihood of two upcoming significant east coast storms. Changes will occur from the some of the attached supporting graphics but we're in line for more significant weather and I'm sort of concerned about flood potential. This time maybe wet snowfall NYC.? Please consider limiting NYC snow enthusiasm with the stats attached from Don, at least until we get Jan 4-5 (if snow is still in the possibilities). It is hoped the Bluewave produced lack of 2" snowfall at CP can be put to bed, but it's possible that next Sundays probable wintry event will shift a little more inland with rain dominating along the coast. The event for the 10th could be brief snow or ice to heavy rain and snow melt, presuming we accumulate anywhere close to the attached 00z/31 EPS prob of 4" axis. Wind damage graphic via the EPS for the 10th... expectations are more of an e-ne wind (nor'easter we hope) for the 7th with gust potential 40-50 MPH along the coast and maybe minor coastal flooding (tide cycles are LOW for this storm). The event around the 10th "may" have stronger winds gusts vicinity 60MPH along the coast and a better chance of coastal flooding (tide cycles 10" higher to start). Power outages possible but impossible to predict without 24 hour confidence on wind gusts/qpf amounts/ptype/temp if and when it snows. This thread was started since I think there is general interest in snow, also flood potential for this weather interested forum. I may comment once/day but it's all yours. OBS for the 6th-7th will go in here. For whatever occurs the 10th...may have to separate out the OBS in a supplemental thread late 9th, but that's 10 days away and at least a portion of these ensemble expectations may be less than out looked through the 00z/31 cycle and therefore less impact and more routine. No guarantees here but definitely worth monitoring. Edited title 1156AM-Jan 6 to include obs and tags added obs and sleet. Edited title 645 AM Jan 8 iso include OBS for Jan 9-10 and removed the ? behind damaging wind.
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Most of our long range looks are well into December now. Hopefully we can have a better winter than last year, which was an all-time worst here. The first week of the month looks to be near normal temp wise and probably drier than normal, even though CPC favors AN precip. -
Carver's spoke of creating an early winter spec thread recently, and after another day in the 70s in August, I figured why not get the ball rolling. This for general long term talk about the potential winter patterns, etc. Right now, the EPO has went negative, it's at -12, and is in the East descending phase. In 2021-22 it fell into the negative in May and stayed deeply negative until the following May. So it should descend throughout winter. Below, average pressure anomalies over NH when the QBO is negative. Higher in the PNA/NAO region, lower over the south and eastern U.S. (These maps may initially appear confusing, since they greens are positive numbers. It just means that the they are higher by those margins over those areas or lower by those margins over those areas when there isn't a -QBO in place. Just keep in mind green = lower pressure and cooler temps during -QBO years) There tends to be higher pressure over the North Pole during a -QBO, which results in a weaker jet stream/polar vortex on average. During an El Nino/-QBO combination our forum region is slightly BN for temps DJF and pressures are quite a bit lower across the Southeast (our storm track). The map doesn't look unlike this for temps, but BN for Texas, Tennessee, North Carolina and up the east coast is more prominent than the CPC map here. Especially over Texas.
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We will soon find out if the high latitude blocking signatures pay dividends for our area. May need a boat and may also need snow shovels. We'll try separating this into threads by month. If that doesn't work, I will simply switch this to Part I of winter. Have fun and good luck!- 582 replies
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Since we do have a variety of forum posters in areas that will see snow/sleet/ZR - at least initially and on the backend, plus there is a flood threat, along with some potential advisory-level winds and possibly record breaking cold, decided to go ahead and make an obs thread. Currently misty and mostly virga and 36 with dp 32 here in NW Philly. -
February discussion for all things winter in the Tennessee Valley Sub-forum. When we have a likely event 2-3 days out we can create an individual thread for said storm. It helps for record keeping purposes as a lot us like to look back on old threads to learn, etc. Hope everyone is doing well.
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It's becoming more and more likely that at the minimum, western forum area members see a dangerous ice event as the week unfolds. The modeling is currently trending towards heavy ice accumulation for West Tennessee, moderate to heavy for the mid-State and Kentucky, and light to moderate over the Plateau areas. These ice amounts would be devastating for trees and the power grid. West Tennessee is actually one of the most freezing rain prone areas in the United States and these massive ice storms happen there.
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January discussion for all things winter in the Tennessee Valley Sub-forum. When we have a likely event 2-3 days out we can create an individual thread for said storm. It helps for record keeping purposes as a lot us like to look back on old threads to learn, etc. Merry Christmas to all as well, I hope everyone has a great holiday.
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Please follow National Weather Service warnings/statements. Starting from another 10 degree morning in NYC, a rapidly changing weather scenario will cause some power outages, accidents (despite a Holiday weekend) and slippery travel for a time in a fairly large portion of the forum, in part due to at least 42 consecutive hours of freezing temperatures on non snow covered ground, and beginning near sundown when the impact of solar insolation lessens. Exactly who gets how much of what is being determined by member observations with model and forecast contributions enhancing, but not hyping interest. Coastal flood threat as per OKX. Usually we like at least 12 hours of gale force onshore flow to build the water levels, but with the astronomically higher tide cycle, 980s MB pressure at Monday morning high tide, an inch of rain in the 6 hours up to high tide emptying from rivers-streams, there should be enough surge and incoming wave action to cause coastal flooding. Working a bit against the flooding NYC southward along the NJ shore is the onslaught of wind abating and turning southerly near the time of high tide. Certainly the early part of the morning high tide cycle looms larger. If you're in a tidal inundation area, follow NWS statements. I'd park my car with parking laws in mind where it can't get flooded. Wind damage: several 12z/16 HRRRX graphics are appended. Please use the legend. Midnight to 6AM is best chance for damaging wind , to occur in a 3hour period ranging from near 2A NYC to near 5A e LI. Gusts to 60 kt possible e LI with gusts 45 kt possible NYC metro airports. I could be too conservative. Have cell phones charged and be prepared for no internet early Monday. Many of our members, even to western LI will be reporting a bit of snow or sleet late today (some are from Ocean Effect already). mPing will be helpful especially for us inland folks just north of I78 where an hour or 2 error in the precip phase change from snow to sleet/freezing rain or rain can mean an inch or two of snow. The 12z HRRR, HRRRX, and 3K NAM seem to support slightly more snow than maybe some are anticipating. Whether that occurs is unknown. No matter, if you have heart problems and live north of I80, you may want some assistance removing slush laden with maybe 3/4" of rain (glop). And of course have your resources to clear it by 6PM Monday when temperatures falling below freezing start the solidifying process. {The HRRRX amounts may be too large by 2", so it is a slower to change model with 1/4-1/2" everywhere up through I84 by 06z, so that could bias the amounts high there. edited in at 1036AM} ICE: I think parts of the I84 corridor including Sussex County NJ may have pockets of damaging ice near 4AM Monday when the ice combined with wind gusts 45 MPH in the ridges could be enough to knock out some power. Monday afternoon-evening: The trough aloft passage and influx of colder air should wring out areas of 0.1-1" snowfall in the steep moist lapse rates associated with the cold pool aloft, including NYC-LI.
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Have added the 5AM January 7 NWS ensemble probability of .01 freezing rain Sunday. These probabilities are quite high for a day 3 forecast. Not talking damaging to trees and wires but with the fresh snow cover, frozen ground and modeled dew points not exceeding 32F Sunday, ice looks highly probable, even to NYC-LI. Depends on timing. IF the precipitation doesn't arrive til 11AM or after in NYC (I95 to the coast) then treated pavements will be okay. Winds at the surface will probably be light southerly-southwest. This should ensure the LI coast to easily warm above freezing in the afternoon, if not during late morning. RGEM and NWS ensemble is the basis of this thread. The GFS still doesn't handle boundary layer temps very well. The EC looks better than the GFS but it too doesn't appear as threatening as the Canadian and SREF (oh no-the SREF?). Also: while the primary thread time frame is Sunday morning, it's possible periods of freezing rain can linger into mid afternoon along the I84 corridor hills which includes nw NJ/se NYS northern CT. Have even seen modeling turn this to a short period of light snow north of I84 but am not convinced.
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Overall assessment as modeling monitored through 6AM Monday. Complex intermittent snow to sleet to freezing rain scenario with potential for 0.1"-0.5" measurable snow sleet NYC-LI while parts of the I84 corridor receive spotty 1 to possibly 2" snowfall. It should begin in NYC/NJ/ne PA/se NYS between 11A-2P and CT maybe between 2-5P. While treated surfaces in metro NYC should be mostly wet, caution is advised everywhere. The National Weather Service has advisories posted for the I84 corridor. I think this could be more of a problem further south in NJ. Also: the worst of this for some of our area could occur near sunrise Tuesday if it clears after midnight and everything refreezes into a frosty icy mess, especially driveways, sidewalks-steps. No thread expected (at least not yet) for late Tuesday-early Wednesday where w wintry hazardous mess is expected again-at least for the high terrain of I84 (strong mid level Frontogenesis). A few graphics to give an idea of what should occur. 631A/27
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West siders are basically guaranteed to get this one at this point. It's currently trending colder valley wide. As with any winter storm here, bust potential abounds, especially eastern valley areas. All modeling currently shows ice, snow or some combination of the two from Arkansas to SWVA. Let's reel it in!
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515A/19: Intermittent event continues and precip intensification gradually changes freezing rain/freezing drizzle sleet near I95 eastward to snow. Ending time still the same, this afternoon sometime ne PA/nw NJ/se NYS and the remainder sometime this evening-early tonight. Between 7AM-ending time, I expect a general base 1/2" new throughout the forum after 7am with possibly as much as 3" , the heaviest seeming to be near NYC into CT per a decent band developing this morning-midday, and possibly a nice hour of closing snow this evening. Easy melting process on pavement expected during the midday-afternoon hours where temps above 25F and when snow lessens it's intensity. Manageable but fun for us. 450AM/18: overall no change in expectations. Might get started an hour or so slower but already flurries or steady light snow have occurred se NYS, ne PA, CT, far nw NJ. See latest NWS products and your own judgement. 548AM added the 4AM NWS regional snowfall expectation that went into their early morning products. An overall manageable 24-36 hour wintry precipitation episode will probably see snow change to a mixed bag in NJ/LI, with even a bit of rain possible for a time eastern LI and the NJ coast. Snow should begin in seNYS/NJ/NYC between 2AM and 7AM Thursday and by 9AM elsewhere. It should snow moderately for a time sometime between 9AM and 4PM Thursday before probably transitioning to mixed precipitation or even quitting for a time in NJ/LI toward Thursday evening. Precipitation may intensify again as it probably changes back to snow everywhere on Friday and then gradually ends from west to east during the afternoon, or early Friday night. Graphics are the 21z/17 NWS ensemble 48 hour prob for 8"+ of snow, 4"+, the 12z/17 SPC HREF snowfall ending 00z/19 = 7PM Thursday, the 5PM/17 actual NWS regional deterministic (approximate) snowfall forecast and the 21z/17 WPC ensemble prob of .01" freezing rain. Thursday afternoon into Friday morning. Please contribute as needed.
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OBS and nowcast Monday Feb 15 - Noon Tuesday Feb 16 2021
wdrag posted a topic in New York City Metro
610A updated thread....my last topic update and all my other posts will be in the observed below. Adding several graphics from the 4AM NWS forecast process inclusive of the ICE STORM WARNING coverage area (purple), the HPC HREF ensemble 1/2" of glaze expectation by 7A Tuesday (blue), WPC ensemble probs of .10 glaze (orange) by 7A Tuesday and the much lower prob of 1/2" glaze. I would expect power outages in the NWS warning area and SPC HREF Blue coverage area. IF these amounts work out- I think it will be big. Modeling doesn't necessarily guarantee freezing longer than 4AM Tuesday, so if it's not, then the rain is non freezing its heaviest 3 hour period. Still the ground is cold so I'd plan on a bad night, and in fact a bad day today in the I84 corridor on all untreated surfaces. Regarding info near NYC... just be careful. Untreated's slippery near NYC-LI today-this evening, should ease sometime tonight. Looking at 06z/15 NAM FOUS...if that surface wind stays ne in NYC through tonight as the sfc low transits coastal NJ, the guidance will be too warm at the surface. This needs careful monitoring. My guess, via the 06z/15 guidance, there may be an underplaying of extensive ice damage, especially just west of the 4AM warning. Just a degree or two makes a huge difference. I'm not expert enough to know for sure. So for me here in Wantage NJ, if its still 31-32F at 4A Tuesday, we've got pretty big problems in far nw NJ/se NYS/nePA. We will see how the probs work. Prep worst and hope for the best. While a bit of snow is possible Monday along the northern edge of the subforum, most of this event should be freezing rain or rain with heaviest amounts Monday night. Sleet may occur as well for a time Monday. If freezing rain lasts long enough in the warning area of the forum, and accretes thick enough, tree damage and power outages would occur. Spotty poor drainage street flooding is possible in NJ, LI. 21z/14 NWS ensemble high probs for freezing rain and low probs for 1/2" glaze are posted. -
Real time Conditions and observations from around the Midsouth, Middle Tn, and North Ms, as this potentially historic system moves into the forum. 14 and light snow in bolivar right now. Gusty winds at times as well(10-15). Good luck to everyone today and stay safe!
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A seemingly - relatively boring advisory light mixed wintry elements event seems to start as snow or sleet near I-195 in central NJ this morning and spreads north to the I78 corridor and LI by mid or late afternoon, eventually changing to a bit of freezing rain tonight. It ends sometime Sunday, probably midday ish. Have ended the topic time as Noon Sunday, since thereafter, temps probably close to or just above freezing with any remaining icing negligible for the remaining daylight hours. The region north of I80 in ne PA/nw NJ/extreme se NYS and s CT should see a period or two of light snow/sleet this evening into Sunday morning but the precip is so light that dry air may evaporate precip with nothing reaching the ground near I-84 in the northern part of our subforum. Uncertainty on precip types and even amounts, but thinking a few tenths of an inch of sleet here and there and certainly slippery at times all untreated surfaces this Saturday evening, Noting any spotty icing near dawn on the 15th as sporadically modeled near NYC is not covered in this thread. Advisories are posted for LI and much of NJ. Please follow NWS advisories and statements on this light prelim event for what appears to be daily bouts of wintry elements in portions of the forum the 15th, 16th, 18th and maybe early 19th. Leaving this last sentence as a place holder for updating the other the other threads by 930AM and deleting at that time once those are updated. Added WPC probabilistic ensemble graphics for today and tomorrow to assist with confidence but are necessarily imperfect due to the proximity of the ocean.
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A challenging period of travel is possible Friday morning across northwest NJ, northeast PA and se NYS; possibly into the CT portion of our forum as multiple bands of precip sweep eastward across the region. Amounts will be light but where possibly freezing rain or sleet, untreated surfaces could be quite slippery. Additionally there will be a tendency for any rain/freezing rain to briefly change to steady snow even to just west and north of NYC with little or no accumulation there, while high terrain in nw NJ/ne PA/se NYS and w CT are modeled to pick up 1/2-2" before melting begins ~ 11 AM or Noon. mPing. This thread will help concentrate interest Friday mornings system while the other threads occupy the Sunday event and beyond.
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