The_Global_Warmer
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Everything posted by The_Global_Warmer
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If you suddenly find that I never respond to you, you are on ignore becuase failed logic and reason.
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Only in the CC forum are forum posters allowed to pass of manipulated data, bold face lies, and not worthy opinions off as fact and there is no repercusions. If this is done on the main board you will get warned and banned fast.
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http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=more-than-150000-methane-seeps-appear-as-arctic-ice-retreats Going up.
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They say the Beaufort Sea, in the western Canadian Arctic, holds clues to several environmental mysteries of global significance - chief among them why so much methane, a potent greenhouse gas, is now seeping out of the sea floor. Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/Scientists+eager+drill+Arctic+waters+answers+about+methane/6535248/story.html#ixzz1tOLIiOI7 EVIDENCE OF LEAKING METHANE More worrisome to many observers is the massive store of methane sitting beneath the permafrost in the form of gas hydrates. The gas has been trapped under the sea for thousands of years, but there is mounting concern - and evidence - that it is leaking out as the climate warms. In the past few years, dramatic plumes of the methane have been spotted by teams surveying waters off Siberia. A Canada-U.S. team has also found "extensive free gas release" on the Beaufort Shelf, which is pock-marked with holes the escaping gas leaves behind. At one spot about 50 metres below the surface, the team's remotely operated vehicle found gas "vigorously and continuously" bubbling out of a sea mound, kicking up clouds of sediments. The chemical signature of the gas seeping out from the Beaufort Sea floor indicates much of it is bubbling up through cracks and gaps in the permafrost that are liberating methane that has been locked under the sea for at least 50,000 years, Dallimore and his colleagues report. How much methane is entering the atmosphere, and whether the rate is increasing as Arctic ice retreats and the climate warms, is not known. But scientists say it is important to find out because methane is 20 times more potent as a greenhouse gas than car-bon dioxide. The permafrost and vast hydrate deposits in the shallow waters of the Arctic pose "a potentially significant geohazard and may release vast amounts of methane to the atmosphere," geologist Matt O'Regan, at Cardiff University in Britain, says in a report outlining the "urgent need" for the scientific drilling. Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/Scientists+eager+drill+Arctic+waters+answers+about+methane/6535248/story.html#ixzz1tOLxmL7T So it is now leaking out of the Beaufort side as well.
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your a pretty abrasive guy for posting that you saw MYI growth where there was none. You still haven't posted how the MYI is growing. You cliamed there were Countless papers on cryosat2. You posted ZERO of them. You completely dismissed out right methane leaking through ice cracks and again you were wrong. Is ironic that your in this thread grilling these guys on this when you continue to not back up the claims you make. You may want to be more fair
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Well, it's obviously coming from the Clathrates. But it is also obviously coming from the Permafrost as well. The Russians have proof of it coming out of the Russian Sea's especially the shore area in the Laptev. Where they measured a 3C temp on the arctic floor(al beit in very shallow water. Doesn't matter. These Clathrate sit 30-75M deep. all over the region. Clearly some are in much deeper water. We know Spring snow cover has declined rapidly in recent years, especially in Russia. We know arctic sea ice has declined to an average summer min around 3.1 mil km2 in area the last 5 years. Allowing unprecedented heating of the arctic sea's, especially the Russian side. We have Observed this getting a stronger out let for Methane. We have observation record of Methane picking up and our charts show it's coming from the Arctic region and Permafrost higher than before. We have real humans with real technological devices, going to real Russian Sea's flying real helicopters over Russians Sea's, tracking and observing tens of thousands of individual samples the last decade. We have photographs of the methane clathrates blowing out methane from the arctic floor, we have photographs of the methane bubbling out into ice crack, ice floes, pancake ice, open seas,stormy seas. We have measured and extrapolated large quantities of this. If you brought this much evidence to prove anything else it would be accepted at first glance. Does it mean it will blow out in a catastrophic way? Absolutely Not. is it Alarming? Umm, Yeah, arctic methane clathrates melting out is quite alarming. Does even this little bit that came out so far enhance warming? Yep. Is there reason to believe it will get much worse? Yeah. Let's see how warm the Laptev can get if the arctic ice melts out to 2 million square kilometers butting up against Canada/Greenland. With the Laptev Ice free since June. Those 10-15C water temps over the shallow areas won't be good.
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Umm, I don't think it has to, I think it would come out of the open water that forms between cracks. Some of those cracks are 10-20 miles apart. The concentrations are built up in winter under the ice and will exhaust pretty strongly between cracks when it opens up. http://www.skepticalscience.com/new-observations-find-underwater-arctic-shelf-is-perforated-and-venting-methane.html It's not like it's not happening. This is small potatoes, but it's an added positive feedback. this it self warms the atmosphere. No other way to slice it, expect the Arctic and Northern Hemisphere at large is retaining more heat that it was 10, 20, 30 and so on because of methane. This helps melt snow and ice faster which helps lower there effective albedos. This helps warm the water faster so methane hydrates can continue to melt further. Eventually methane oxidizes into Co2. This is a cycle from one thing to another that will help warm the Earth. That is important. And real.
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Boy, while no conclusion can be drawn that is crazy in the sense that we know Methane is up quite a bit and no one is claiming a cause. The most obvious one is the Arctic Ocean. It's only March, let's hope this is a blip and not a trend for this season.
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This idea is pretty sound, but there likely isn't a high enough concentration of any GHG to force that locally and hard. But I suppose it is all relative. The radient body of Methane globally vs X increase is definely a different answer than the radiant body of the Kara's Methane vs X increase that gas. a localized affect could be much stronger, but not sure if it is enough to play a large factor.
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This is exactly what happens, almost without fail. Please come to the arctic sea ice thread and break down how you got us alarmists with Antarctica. Use the science that we have right now to show us how the impacts of the menial sea ice gains in Antarctica. Are impactful and important like the large ice losses in the Arctic.
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Please post your science.
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There is no doubt that there is quite a bit of over zealous alarmism with the Methane. I know I have made some very wild projections. But you come here bringing very little substance. You think this is some big joke. Why are you not bringing the science? This is all science. And you make vague statements with very little science. And go off trolling us in other forums. You tell us we want people to die, tell us we are not smart enough to understand the real science. Then bring none of it. There is nothing you can post here that I wouldn't understand. So please post the science you believe is real.
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Surface temperature anomalies for the Kara From Dec 1-Present have been 10-17.50C. Mean temps have been around -8 to -10C towards the Laptev side to -2 to -4C on the Island side. This is from the pattern, first and foremost. But also from how incredibly thin the ice was and how much warm open water was left over during the early fall period. The Kara is shallow, so thin ice can form easy as the sun sets and cold sets in. But even with the pattern, this hasn't happened before and the sheer ice retreat so far embedded in the arctic winter regime is quite absurd. But taking in the extra thin ice, warm waters, and pattern. It is doable at this point. I would say it is the by product of many positive feedback's + the pattern. The models both show a Dipole anomaly or partial one the next 7-10 days. But in regards to the Kara show more southerly warm winds..not as warm as recent ones, but warm enough.
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January 2009 on AIRS was 1848ppb. 1ppb behind July of 2009 at 1849ppb. January of 2012 anomaly was 12ppb higher than 2009. So roughly 1860ppb. This is for 70-90N. So roughly 11ppb higher. December of 2011 was around 1852-1853ppb which broke the record high for 70-90N, now this breaks record for monthly ppb at 400mb. This is also a new record for the 50-70N, NH, and global. These increases are small though.. talking about this making any impact on temperatures right now outside of a 0.000?? something is a bit absurd and it makes folks think crazy alarm-ism is going on. the important message here is that we know the arctic is leaking...and we need to keep track of it to see if this is the beginning of major rises in methane or just a blip.
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the Methane is coming from the arctic ocean. But it is not causing the arctic to warm like this. Ice and Snow albedo are combined with the overall pattern. The methane is a background warming that is very slowly changing the heat distribution of globe, yes initially affecting the Arctic the most, but not very much.
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this is the top 5 meters.
