beavis1729

NOWData for Duluth shows a depth of 37" on 3/12 and 3/13, and 35" on 3/14. I wonder if the interim 50" was someone (or automated) adding the new snowfall to the previous depth, without actually measuring the depth itself (?). 116.4" of snow for the season; record is 131.0" in 2013-14. Don't take this as a complaint about Duluth's winter climo ...but I always find it strange how 116.4" of snow can fall in a cold place like Duluth, but the max depth has never exceeded 37". It's like once you hit a certain depth, it's almost impossible for it to get much higher due to compaction and sublimation. Even in January (with hardly any melting due to the low sun angle), 17" of snow fell but the depth only increased by 2". And much of this snow was synoptic, not lake effect.

Chilly morning in central & northern WI, after the fresh snowfall from a couple of days ago. Not quite record lows, as mid-March normal lows are still in the teens. -17 Manitowish Waters -10 Minocqua -9 Rhinelander -2 Eau Claire -1 Stevens Point 1 Wausau

Road trip to Ontonagon and the Porcupine Mountains...beautiful area

MSP is up to 102 consecutive days with 1”+ snow cover, and 111 total days for the season. There were 9 days of snow cover earlier in November, before the streak began on 11/30. Should easily add 5-7 more days, and possibly 10. Unfortunately it only takes a couple of mild or rainy days to wipe out snow cover in mid-late March, even if it’s currently a glacier. One of my favorite places (Minocqua WI) basically has the same numbers as MSP this season. Their consecutive 1”+ snow cover record is probably unbreakable, 150 days from 11/23/1996 to 4/21/1997.

My brother in Mequon reported around 7”.

Come on - this NWS bashing is ridiculous. What are you trying to accomplish? I'm in Lake County IL, and we had about 4"...which has already compacted down to 2" and continues to melt. A warning was not needed, even for the locations which had 5-7". Headline calls are both an art and a science. Of course I wish the NWS were wrong and we ended up with 10-15" that actually stays on the ground for awhile, as I'm a winter weenie and only care about the outcome. But that has nothing to do with the NWS's job, which is great most of the time.

That's insanely warm for Iron Mountain - normal high for March 8th is 35.

Duluth is now up to 113 consecutive days with 2"+ snow depth; the streak began November 15th. Currently 30" on the ground. 45N and north is a different planet. ORD has only had 13 days with 2"+ snow on the ground this season, and zero days with 4"+.

Counting today, MSP is at 96 consecutive days with 1”+ snow cover. If models are correct, this should continue for at least 10 more days, and possibly 15-20 more days. What is the current record? The Midwest winter climo difference between 42N and 45N is unbelievable. It’s really a very short distance relative to the entire NA landmass. You guys are having a warm winter but can still make it work for both snowfall and snow cover…even as I would still be annoyed by the occasional thaws. But here, we can’t tolerate temps normal or above for even a modest 3-5 day period during DJF (much less March), since it kills snow cover. Even in our best winters for both snow and cold combined, we can barely string together 40-50 days of consecutive snow cover.

Thoughts?

Since this is a marginal set-up to begin with, it would help if Lake Michigan temps were actually near normal or slightly below. Typically, lake water temps are at their annual minimum in early March.

Good point; I think the answer is probabilistic forecasts. And if John Q Public doesn’t have the skill set to understand probabilities and why that approach is needed in certain situations, then it’s on them.

Normally, I hear you. But when DJF disappoints (which it often does), there's a need to make up for it in Nov/March. There's always a reason to lower the bar - "the lake is too warm before Dec 15th", "average temps and/or sun angle are increasing quickly after Feb 15th", bad pattern, Index ABCDEFG isn't timed perfectly, on and on and on and on. How refreshing it would be if we actually had a sacred part of winter with no worries about the pattern - it's just winter because of the calendar. We don't have this for literally any day. I'd like it for all of DJF, much less one fooking sacred day. So, I'm batting 0 for 90 - not good odds. Heck, it was 60 degrees in early Jan 2008 - at the coldest time of the year. That's not supposed to happen. It seems like every DJF has several days over 40F, even in good/decent months...which just isn't right. Feb 2015 was great. Not saying every Feb needs to be like that - but Feb 2015 should be closer to "expected" than Feb 2023, that's for sure. We need to turn around the PNA and AMO to have any hope for better times ahead. Back to your regularly scheduled programming...

Ha ha - all good, not personal or anything...I just detest our climo and our low standards for winter. When we have a 980 low in the location where it's at, we should be hoping for/expecting something similar to GHD 1, or Jan 1999...or at minimum a widespread 6-12" storm with no worries about a tiny jackpot area, or temps being marginal, etc. This is what I mean about everyone's expectations being so low. It drives me crazy. We should all be furious about this storm/setup.

Couldn't have said it better myself...yet another ****** F winter imby too. As you suggested, maybe a D-- at best, due to the White Christmas...but then we're just playing into the forum's new mindset these days and mindlessly accepting the ridiculously low bar. And it was only 1-2" of depth anyway.

I guess...but it has sucked the entire winter.

Correct...as much as I hate to admit this reality. And, even if a certain location hits the jackpot, the snow will melt and/or lose its character within a couple days anyway. There's just no cold air anywhere. This has been the most pathetic winter for so many areas of the country south of 45N...it's just laughable. And I don't want to hear about how snowfall amounts technically aren't that much below normal for some areas; I'm talking the overall feel, temps, SDDs, tenor, etc. And ice storms don't matter, unless it's on top of snow on the ground (which wasn't the case). And I would still be relatively disappointed north of 45N; just too many thaws. If I lived in MSP, I'd go with B+...maybe A- at best due to the warmth.

I’ll take the bait. BowMe = UMB Wx. If so, I have no ill will…welcome back.

Ha ha…not often you see a 108 degree gradient.

Dallas was near 90 today, and it’s currently -18 in Bottineau ND. Not bad.

I wasn’t tuned in to the drama back then…could have been worse than I imagined. Others probably know better. Not trying to dig up gremlins from the past - just remembering the good times.

We need to bring BowMe, Geos, and daddylonglegs back to help the mojo in here. The good old days of 2013-14. And… ’copter

Do people really think that DJF temps right on the immediate lakeshore aren’t warmer than ORD, especially in the 1800s when there was no UHI at the present-day location of ORD? Or, that 4 of the 6 warmest winters in history all occurred in a 7-year span?? That points to the observation site being a factor. You know, how Alek celebrates going past Thanksgiving without a freeze, seemingly year after year? Of course it’s different in MAM, due to the lake breeze.

I’m not saying we throw them out…or that those 1800s winters weren’t mild.. but it’s well known that average temps in downtown Chicago are materially warmer than ORD, especially earlier in the winter due to marine influence (even with the increase in UHI at ORD over time). If the DJF temps in the 1800s were measured at present-day ORD, they would have been colder (especially at night)…especially since there was no UHI at this location back then. Regardless of these details, I’m most upset about the fact that there were mild winters in the 1800s. I keep hoping these recent obnoxiously mild winters are a fluke…but unfortunately they don’t seem to be.

I would throw out (or at least asterisk) the warm DJFs from the 1800s, as the official measurements were influenced heavily by the downtown and/or lakeside location. Similar to Logan Airport for Boston. That’s why 5 of the top 6 warmest DJFs occurred in the late 1800s. It’s not as if all of those winters were warmer than some of our recent clunkers, apples to apples. Regardless, this list highlights how bad the winter climo is for downtown Chicago. It’s already bad enough inland…