dan11295

Updated page from Springfield, MO NWS office on the tornado identifes 4 different location along the track where EF-5 damage was determined to have occurred. Appears EF-5 damage began near the hospital and continued until the eastern end of the Commercial/Industrial area on E 20th St. We should get a more detailed report in the coming days I imagine. I am sure they are being more thorough with this report than for most other events given the severity.

That would explain why the death toll jumped by 6 today. We can note that none of them were found in buildings. Makes me still hope that very few are still to be found. As far as the morgue, I imagine there reasoning is many of the bodies are probably in very bad shape, not readily identifiable. I understand the families want closure but if the winds are as strong as suggested above you can imagine what that could have done, without getting too gruesome on here. So they are getting them identified via other means then cleaning them first then releasing them at that point.

I am guessing one reason there was little ground scouring was that the winds, although strong at the ground surface were not able to travel unimpeded over soil for enough distance. i.e. Almost all areas where strongest winds occurred were developed. Also I don't think all EF-5's produce scouring. Ability to scour also depends on soil type and shape of the landscape I imagine. It is much easier to scour a plowed field then lawn. an 4/9/11 EF-1 in Souix Falls was able to scour a plowed field

I was looking for what the Max. estimates speeds were in the other EF-5's? I know from last month: Hackleburg, AL: 210 Philadelphia, MS: 205 Smithville, MS 205 Not sure about Parkersburg or Greensburg

Glad to hear you are O.K. Really telling to know even though you were following the situation very closely and saw the couplet on radar before you took shelter, because the storm intensified so rapidly you did not realize the severity of the storm until afterwords. From that and other accounts many people did not know a tornado was upon them until the began to see debris. Yes they heard the sirens but they may not have thought too much of them. On a sad note they are still finding more victims. Toll has risen to 132.

They are having structural engineers look at the building. My guess is it will need a lot of work but they wont have to demolish the entire structure.

It is very clear this is a matter of very bad luck. Tornado developed quickly, becoming large violent and rain wrapped just it is is moving into a densely populated area where the surrounding area is mostly farmland.

They have searched the debris area 4 times now and have not turned up anyone living or deceased since Tuesday. Not to say additional people may not be buried, But I suspect that the number would be very small (single digits). Undoubtedly some of those missing are at the morgue but currently unidentified. That should account for 30 of the mssing.

Some amazing and sobering aerial images of Joplin from the Daily Mail Give a good idea of the scope of the destruction and the path of the storm. The pictures of the Home Depot are rather sobering. That building took the full force of the tornado. People who tried to take shelter next to a wall would have been crushed most likely.

That happened in Tuscaloosa as well with 400+ initially reported missing, and I believed they accounted for everyone without finding additional loss of life So I am confident almost all of those simply have communication issues. Also, we were talking about the Big Box stores yesterday. The Joplin Globe has a story which has a statement from Wal-Mart indicating lives were lost in that building. Read elsewhere lives were also lost at the Home Depot (numbers unknown at this time).

from KOAM: Updated at 12:45 pm: The Associated Press is reporting a nursing home owner says Sunday's tornado killed 11 from his property alone. Sad but not surprising. Nursing home residents are very vulnerable in this kind of event..

Re: shopping centers/commercial areas. Historically at least recently there have been very few fatalities in commercial structures, as they are constructed better and they often have more secure areas in their interiors to seek shelter. A well played video today shows people survived in one building by getting in the freezer. People have also used bank vaults to the same affect (not relavent specifically here as it was a Sunday). Big box stores are probably more vulnerable. Will have to see if their were many deaths in the Rangeline area.

A more recent comparison is the Tuscaloosa tornado last month. Both were relatively close in strength, both went to cities of comparable size and the total damage area is each community looks to be somewhat similar (Tuscaloosa storm carved a longer path as the city is somewhat larger but the Joplin storm may have been a bit wider). The Joplin storm hit more tightly packed blocks of single family residences whereas in Tuscaloosa more damage was done to apartments. Hopefully we can get an idea of the number of people in the core damage path in Joplin (it was about 6,000 people in Tuscaloosa). Tuscaloosa storm was better warned, more visible and awareness was more hightened in general. Neither of the too community had many dwelling with basments. Mobile homes are a non factor in either case. Tuscalossa was a weekend, Joplin a Sunday. All variables that will have to be examined as do why so many more died in Joplin.

Obviously we do know yet if any one location had a high number of fatalities. Though from other forums I had read there were 4 at the hospital and 7 at a nursing home. Note that a nursing home was hit in Tuscaloosa also I believe, but IIRC that had been evacuated/taken some other shelter beforehand. There is no question that the combination of time (Sunday afternoon) how fast it developed and the fact it was rain-wrapped were all contributing factors. From reviewing the warnings it was obviously warned, but none of the warnings indicated a large/violent tornado was possible until it was already mostly through the city.Only the last warning as it was entering the city included on-the-ground confirmation. Only so much you can do to warn when it spins up that fast.

Some good news here. Apparently 3 people were just pulled alive in Concord, AL. Of course that also raises the possibity of finding more fatalities.

I would suspect (fortunately) that a high percentage of those have simply gone to relatives etc. That is often the case in these kind of events.

That statement is based on the reports published at the time of the events. Wikipedia lists two outbreaks with more fatalities, one in 1920 and other in 1936. The pages for both those events indicate that fatalities from many outbreaks prior to 1950 may have been undercounted because African-Americans were often excluded from official reports.

Mind boggling, and very sad. Of course we all knew going into that day that a major outbreak was very likely, but you just never know when an event can go from something mundate to devastating. Too many large, violent storms hitting populated areas Some of which likely had no power from earlier in the day. which is something that will have to be analyzed wrt this event. How many of the communities with significant fatalities got no/limited forewarning due to loss of power from that severe MCS in the morning?

If there is some bit of encouragement the death toll in Tuscaloosa proper has not risen since yesterday, I know there were some reports yesterday that it might rise significantly. From past experience there tends to be misinformation in these types of situations.

Just watching some aerials from Hackleburg here. Devastation. Simply no other way to put it. Houses with just foundations left. Large industrial facilities completely mangled with dozens of tractor trailers tossed around and smashed.

that 213 number includes 30 in TN now...... Regarding the coverage. The problem with the Cable news channels is after 4 pm they go to shows where the host is supposed to focus on some specific subject, usually politics. As such to tend to ingnore things like single day severe weather events.

From ABC6 via twitter "Bill Castle just came in from our chopper. Reports EF-4/EF-5 type damage non-stop from Tuscaloosa to north of B.." 20% of the state of AL has no power right now also.

This CNN Report had 149 fatalties in AL and 32 in MS. This AP Story with 194 does not include the 21 additional ones from AL. . Sad to think these numbers may still rise. as they do much search and rescue in the daylight today.

Just shows that while advanced warning and better radar technology can and undoubtedly has reduced the loss of life in these events in the last 10-20 years especially, when you are dealing with high end events, in some cases it is just not much people can do. Hard to get out of the way of a 1/2 mile-mile wide EF4+ going through a populated area at high speed. Note that if one tries to compare the Tuscaloosa storm to events such as is Moore 5/3/99 F5, that storm while very intense also, was a very slower mover. Allowed more time to people to shelter, etc.

CNN now reports 32 fatalities in MS, 11 GA..173 in total