sojitodd

Actually I think I saw a study of this tornado where there were more than five homes getting f5 ratings in that subdivision, and some of them were not adjacent.. ..anyway I just hate it when maps have ambiguities..(I was a Urban and Economic Geography major in college)..it just pisses me off to no end. *I do get what you are saying though Josh...I was shocked to see that swath of ef5 and it does seem to be almost incredible. Not what I expected at all. I expected the 'spotty' thing as well, hot a solid 2-3 block swath(isotach) for 3.5 plus miles.

I am wondering now too, given that they have the efo and ef1 markers in the far right of the path in the same swath, but there is no ef0 marker/color on the legend. I am now not as sure-maybe a mistake was made. It still appears that they have a continous swath of ef5 damage, but it may not be accurate. That and the colors not matching up, and the same color apparently being used for ef0(not on the legend but on the map) and ef1(on the legend and on the map).

The colors match for me briefly as i zoom in and out-and then go back . There are five distinct zones/swaths and there are five choices on the legend. The swaths themselves are marked as well with the appropriate ef marker. I am not saying the map is 'right' or 'accurate', but what I am stating is what the map shows. I can't say if it is correct or not, but I can clearly see what that map shows, and it does show a continous swath of ef5 damage from 2-3 blocks wide for nearly 3.5 miles. Whether this is the case or not, I don't know-but that is clearly what that map shows imo. I think it is important to note that there are clearly five swaths, and only five identifiers on the legend-ef1 -ef5. How else could you explain it, unless they made a big mistake on the map? *there is no ef0 on the legend, but at the far end of the track, they have the symbol/marker for ef0, but it is in the same color swath as the ef1 marker is....???? I wonder if maybe there was a mistake? They do not have the ef0 on the legend as far as I can see? hmmm....

The colors do match when you zoom in and out-they change-and that is certainly a separate swath and is defined from the other areas by the ef markings. If you zoom in it is unmistakable. That is what us on the map. There are five distinct swaths to match the five choices on the legend( there is no ef0 on the legend). I am not saying this is what is true in reality, but that is what is on the map-no question about it. *typing/keying bad because of sliced right hand from working in yard yesterday with no gloves *it does say they are estimates and may not be accurate down to the 'sub neighborhood level' -so it does have some kind of disclaimer.

If you zoom in, it definetely looks like a 2-3 block line of ef5 from about the hospital to just short of Duquesne-nearly 4 miles. They have a darker color that goes the length-where they ef5 markers are-and it is a different swath than the areas given the ef4 and ef3-if you zoom in it is continous and about 2-3 blocks wide. the ef5 and ef4 damage swath is much wider than even the Wichita Falls tornado-- nealy 1/4 mile wide for over 4 continous miles. *the ef4 seems to start just before Shifferdecker...and the ef5 seems to start just after S. Maiden lane, right above the H for the hospital-it looks to be about 3 blocks wide around the Missouri/Ohio ave areas.

Well back on post 467 is where they discuss the 'upgrading' and that is where those 225-250mph winds were mentioned. If they mentioned that(someone from the NWS) then you would think they would incorporate that into the max wind value-why mention it otherwise? But who knows. We have had 198mph, then 'in excess of 200 mph, and then the mention of the 225-250 mph in the article right at that time. From what it said, the 'in excess of 200 mph' was also still another 'preliminary'..so who knows? If they really think 225 to 250 is correct as stated , then I hope it is listed officially as along that.

I wonder how a map of the damage(ef wise) would compare to the (f scale) map of damage they had for Wichita Falls? I remember the f4 damage was very wide on that one-I imagine the ef4 damage on this one would be even wider. I bet Ed M. knows well the map I am talking about.

That is the official toll, but they also said that the 142 includes 'partial remains', and that there is a chance that some of the remains listed separately may actually match up to single individual persons. This whole thing must be traumatic for the search and rescue people and the people working at identification. I don't know how they do it.

The worst parts of the BridgeCreek/Moore?OKC tornado were a bit worse than the worst parts of the Xenia tornado(Windsor Park and parts of Arrowhead subdivision)imo. I think you had a car in Moore found half a mile from where it had been parked-I don't think you have quite that level in the Xenia tornado as bad as it was. And the damage to the high school was severe but no worse really than that in Plainfield with that high school, and several others. You had buses and tractor trailer rigs thrown on top of buildings, but nothing that big thrown half a mile like in Moore, or having semi trailers blown 1/8th of a mile, like in Joplin. If you look at the actual damage in Xenia, once it got out of the first subdivisions and into the city and then northeast, the damage does not strike one as being more than ef4/f4 or ef3/f3. There were very few of the older houses in Xenia proper, or the newer houses in the northeastern part, that were completely obliterated off the face of the earth-there was severe damage, but you could see the remains of a house there. This Joplin Tornado sounds at least as bad as just about any. The Jarrell tornado came to mind because of how strong and wide it was, and the short path-but the slow speed really messes that one up for me. I would say of the three Xenia would be not quite as strong as the other two. Just my two cents.

The really sad part of that rising death toll was that the latest 6 found did not sucumb from injuries or were unidentified who were then ID'd-from the news story I read they found the six bodies in the debris field while clearing debris. Even after so many grid sweeps and all.

Don't know you at all JoMo, but so glad you are ok and dodged the bullet with this. Many many people here were very worried for you, especially given the horrific nature of the destruction and the strength and scope of this monster tornado. My best wishes for a good recovery from this ordeal for you and your town.

I hope so. If they had the right street, then the damage appeared to be minor there. In that immediate area(three residential streets) there were no blue tarp things or signs or any roof damage at all-but a few blocks south and east you could see the blue tarps on roofs start and then the obvious significant damage.

I think most will turn out ok and be reunited with friends, relatives, etc. But...the last I heard there were still a number of unidentified dead(30 or so), and some of these may turn out to be among those. Also when you see the particular circumstances of someone's disappearance(sucked out of a demolished vehicle, etc) then you know they were transferred to some hospital somewhere, are in the morgue, or are still to be found out there. In cases this bad, there may not even be whole bodies and all. Very very tragic and just such a bad case scenario this time. Such a strong, quick, rainwrapped tornado that just happened to develop and then explode and max out directly over a heavily populated area. And the thought that many have had(including myself) that we would not see a single town fatality number like this again without a mass casualty event...goes right out the window..with a lot else this tornado season.

Well the tornado did not follow the nice perfect contours of that map(not knocking the map) and the windspeeds/damage rating at different points is going to vary, given whether or not it is on the periphery, etc.etc. Given what was said to be JoMo's street-it looks to be in the minor damage area. The school about 1/4 mile directly east was listed as damaged, not one of the four schools destroyed-just damaged to some extent. Also looking at different pictures, aerials, video, etc., it looks like he just escaped the worst of it-very bad streak of damage just to the south of where he is thought to have lived. It did not look like major damage(roofs off, etc.) from what I could tell where he is supposed to be. From the aerial video, there are areas in the path of that map that are shown to have little damage(like the blue storage shed area directly north of where JoMo is thought to live).

What is so shocking about this is that so many deaths happened over a relatively short path-I would imagine that most or all of the deaths reported were in the city limits of Joplin or at least in it's urban/suburban area. The Woodward tornado in 47 only took just over a hundred in and around Woodward itself-other towns like Glazier and Higgins had many fatalities. This may be the worst single town death toll since the Tupelo and Gainesville tornadoes in the thirties.

I hope this is the case. But they are reporting significant damage to that school which is maybe a third of a mile directly east of his location. It is on the list of 4 schools with 'significant damage'. It looks like it is going to be very close-I hope he and his are ok.

Well we shall see. It only takes one location-one house or structure-that qualifies as EF-5 damage to designate it as such, We just do not know yet, given how wide and long the path was. There are pictures out there of houses completely destroyed, but then again you don't know if the wreckage where the home used to be is from that home, or from another home entirely. They will just have to figure it out and do the surveys on site with the appropriate professionals.

I was not following this right as it happened, and can someone verify if Joplin had just a tornado warning, or if a tornado emergency was issued? I went through the Central Forum thread and do not remember seeing any tornado emergency?

Also reminds me of the hospital in Minamisanriku and the tsunami-they could not move the patients up fast enough and had to leave them or die with them. I hope that story on TWC about the man being sucked out of a sixth floor window of the hospital is not really true... With 89 fatalities and counting, I wonder if something like a nursing home or a crowded store or something got a really bad hit...kind of the opposite of the Tuscaloosa tornado which missed the university, hospital, etc. ?

Well apparently nothing so far..but in the thread in the Central Forum they tracked down where his house is(by using photos he had taken of his neighborhood in a snowstorm and then using google earth, etc.), and located the exact house apparently and it was right in the path of the tornado. His last post was rather chilling. Hope he and his loved ones are ok.

I also keep seeing 'mobile home, mobile home, mobile home' in the storm surveys. Also seems like many of the houses(not all, but many) were older or not necessarily extremely well constructed-especially in some of the small towns, rural, and semi rural areas. I also wonder about the demographic (and even socio-economic) breakdown of the injuries and fatalities. I know from dealing with my own elderly parents how often the elderly will have a 'it is just fate' or 'it is God's will' or some such fatalistic attitude-and often will simply not seek shelter. My own parents say they will not even bother-"We've lived this long and if it is our time, then it is our time" etc . It can be very difficult to deal with. And I know other elderly people who simply do not pay attention to the weather or have the same attitude-they just don't seek appropriate shelter.

yeah... only 18 homes destroyed and a few dozen others damaged-but 14 fatalities. Yikes. scary stuff.

well not to go back to the other topic...but we really do need to know just how many people did die 'hunkering down' etc. We need to know the circumstances of each fatality to see what went wrong-was it a bad choice, lack of information, complacency, just plain bad luck, etc-there has to be a very detailed and thorough assessment so things can be learned from this tragedy and corrections or modifications, if applicable, can be implemented. We really do need to know why so many died- if it was just very strong tornadoes and populated areas and that was it/nothing else could be done, or if there is more to it than that.

well I can understand why it would be a surprise. Many people just were not paying attention to the weather..at all..despite the warnings and everything. That is just the way it is with people and severe weather. I would like to see a very thorough study done of the fatalties and serious injuries in this outbreak, to find out just what the individual circumstances were that led to each situation turning out the way it did. I think much could be learned from that.

Well to be fair, if people knew that a major tornado was virtually guaranteed to hit their neighborhood at some point, then I think they would have a different opinion about it. I really do not think that was a fair comparison-a very likely event (a moderate to major earthquake threat that is almost a guarantee(not if just when) vs. a very unlikely event to happen at all(any given particular neighborhood in Alabama or Ohio or Missouri being hit by a violent tornado-not likely to happen at all). Maybe a better analogy with earthquakes would be flooding and flood measures or flood insurance? Apples to apples and oranges to oranges, Josh!