powderfreak

If Mandy Moore makes it to the summit of Everest, then yes maybe TauntonBlizz can .

This year is far from a higher end death year. It's probably near normal for number of dead in past 20 years if you took an average. The death rate is likely lower given the number of climbers. From 1996 and before, 1 in 4 climbers died. Those numbers have been steadily increasing. More are dying but a lot more are climbing. Some big years: 1996... 15 dead "Into Thin Air" tragedy many very experienced who kept pushing for the summit despite knowing they were running out of oxygen and weather was coming in. 2006... 11 dead 2012... 11 dead 2013... 9 dead 2014... 17 dead 2015... 19 dead (17 of them in one day) 2016... 7 dead 2017... 5 dead 2018... 5 dead 2019... 12 dead This year has been bad but within a standard deviation of normal deaths.

Agreed, not arguing otherwise. They should have a daily quota to the summit without a doubt. You can't let that happen again...especially when the experienced climbers have Summit fever too. So many have said they saw it happening and continued onward anyway...then blaming the crowds on other people. Like Oceanwx said, when veteran storm chasers blame traffic on others. It wasn't them contributing? Ha. That's how people die on Everest. Every single major incident has included people not turning around when they should, like the Into Thin Air disaster, because they have worked so hard towards the goal that they just keep walking to death. My laughing and issue has been mostly at all the folks on their couches making it seem like they could just stroll up there if they had money.

You definitely wouldn't make it anywhere near the summit, that's for sure . I know I wouldn't. I've been following are an engaged couple from Utah who are pro skiers. They are some of the most accomplished mountaineers in the Wasatch but are probably considered inexperienced by the jaded Everest climbers. But everyone was a newbie to some place at one time. These two trained for 4 years, aren't rich, and are like many of the "tourists" there. They were raising money for ClimbForEquality and had a sponsored trip. But a Sherpa may say they were inexperienced despite being renowned in the western US for climbing and skiing. They have never been to Everest so it's hard and need a guiding service. They slept in chambers that reduce oxygen and wore masks while biking and trail running to mimic high altitude. Here's a latest post on social, with an interesting take on the situation. Media is likely blowing it out of proportion as that's what they do.

God f*cking dammit there goes that argument . No way in hell she's going anywhere on the mountain though. I've heard the even bigger tourist draw is those looking to visit base camp, which it appears celebrities are now doing. I guess in 20 years Richard Branson will be taking people like her into space for tourism, and then we can have that discussion... only a matter of time.

20 minutes ago, WinterWolf said: Freak, this discussion goes back to my comment a few days back about quite a few folks being inexperienced, and the local government giving out to many permits imo. You disagreed with that statement, and said you thought that the vast majority are very qualified and experienced.  Now that info is starting to trickle out, it looks to be exactly the problem that I originally thought. And that’s what’s putting the rest of the folks, that are experienced and qualified to be there, at risk this year. And now you add in the guiding services being sub par too...it’s no surprise it’s a death trap this year.  That was my point from the start, not whether it’s your passion or not; many should not be there(guides and guiding services as well), and add in the overcrowding this year, and well you have a death trap! I think that’s where you and I are disagreeing.  I see some of your points too..but they need to start screening better and limiting the number of permits going forward. As I said a few days back...it’s starting to be a joke/irresponsible up there, and that’s why folks are dying now unnecessarily. That place is no place for people who don’t know how to even put on, or use the basic mountaineering equipment! ************************************************** I agree they need to limit the number of permits but I guess the reason I get seem almost defensive is likewise when some news comes out portraying Storm Chasers or Hurricane Chasers dumb Darwin Award candidates, many on here are like whoa whoa whoa slow down now. There are definitely going to be those less experienced but the VAST majority are very experienced and know what they are getting into. If you've read Jon Krauker's Into Thin Air or Dick Bass' Seven Summits, the issues the climbers run into parallel storm chasing very closely. They get blinded by the desire to Summit and it makes even experienced climbers make poor decisions. Likewise when a career storm chaser wants to get the footage so bad they make a terrible if not fatal decision. They aren't thinking rationally anymore. In the "Into Thin Air" disaster, they were all very experienced climbers and no one really knows why some made the fatal decision to keep going with the approaching storm. Reading about the current Everest disaster it pisses me off when experienced climbers try to blame inexperienced climbers but then make the same dumb decision to join the crowd to get to the summit. Like this from The NY Times: Fatima Deryan, an experienced Lebanese mountaineer, was making her way to the summit recently when less experienced climbers started collapsing in front of her. Temperatures were dropping to -30 Celsius. Oxygen tanks were running low. And roughly 150 people were packed together, clipped to the same safety line. “A lot of people were panicking, worrying about themselves — and nobody thinks about those who are collapsing,” Ms. Deryan said. “It is a question of ethics,” she said. “We are all on oxygen. You figure out that if you help, you are going to die.” She offered to help some of the sick people, she said, but then calculated she was beginning to endanger herself and kept going to the summit, which is currently measured at 29,029 feet. On the way back down, she had to fight her way again through the crowds. “It was terrible,” she said. **** This experienced climber sees people struggling, knows she will endanger herself, notes heavy crowds and yet STILL continued to the summit. Then complains about it. As @tamarack noted, and I brought up earlier, most that have died (if not all) have been experienced climbers...why if they saw what was happening did they not turn around? All this blame wants to be put on inexperienced climbers but like storm chasers that get into trouble, the vast majority knew what they were doing, they saw what was happening, and decided to continue to push forward like lemmings. Blinded by glory. Regardless of experience, that traffic jam was going to happen. All those experienced hikers that keep getting interviewed saw it happening and decided to get in line and continue to the summit, while blaming everyone else for the line. Same thing happened in the Into Thin Air disaster. Seasoned pros died because of Summit fever. They had a pre-determined turn around time, they missed it and kept going to the summit for hours and died because of it.

I didn't hear any thunder last night but was surprised to find a healthy 1.25" in the gauge this morning. I didn't think it rained that hard. The local Stowe 0.2SW CoCoRAHS station in the lower village is at 7.75" on the month, should make 8" total by the time the month ends. This area from Stowe south to Waterbury and Duxbury, over to Cabot to the NE and Huntington to the SE has been in quite a wet zone lately.

It's gotten a lot better recently. Many of them are the most wealthy people in their communities. Average annual income in Nepal is $700. The average Sherpa makes $5,000 in two months. However, it's crap when compared to the companies that charge roughly $65,000 for a trip to Everest. I've read a lot about them and it's actually the Nepal government that seems to really treat them like shit. A few years ago when 12 Sherpas died in an avalanche, the government only gave their families something like $400...when it pulled in nearly $4 million in climbing fees. The government makes so much money off the Everest tourism scene but doesn't want to protect and take care of the Sherpa's. Without those Sherpa's no one makes any money because they are the ones that fix the routes. I honestly don't get all the hate on climbing Everest, though it is easy to hate rich people these days, ha. I mean, there are so many tourism spots around the world where westerners vacation that the locals are treated like shit. Hell even most of the Caribbean is a good example of that. On Everest though it isn't as much selfish rich adventure seekers as I think I said elsewhere, a large portion of the people climbing now are doing so as fundraisers or to raise awareness for a cause. Their fees are paid for by sponsorships or donations.

Looks a lot different than it did a week ago. Huge melt in the last 7-10 days. I guess as you get further into May, the climate does get fairly inhospitable towards snow and ice.

Yeah Gene I saw that too. Following a couple pro skiers trying to get to the summit and it sounds like the route is packed like a box store on Black Friday. That is terrifying. Two died in that crowd from altitude sickness because they couldn't get to lower elevation quick enough. You can't go anywhere on that knife ridge and the Hillary Step rock.

Ahh thanks @Ginx snewx for the clarification. Thats odd... as this version of their report on their mobile site only lists the 489" which is what I've been following.

That guys site is at 380" but he's got a bunch of years over 500". His 44-year record looks like 646.1" in 1994-95. The .1 cracks me up...like after 600" you keep measuring to the tenth on an inch. The bigger snow was further north this season than the Crested Butte area. Even in California, Mammoth had 460" or something like that to Squaw's 715". I think Jackson Hole also set their snowfall record this season.

I'm glad I stumbled on this from his CoCoRAHS observations because people like this in true weenie snow sites are hard to come by. Wish there were more of them. If anyone really wants to waste some time like I have this morning... go down the rabbit hole and weather records of his at http://www.gothicwx.org/ The guy turned into a local legend and climate specialist because of how meticulous his records are. I like his attitude about it, like how we argue on the forums about the best/proper snow measuring practices... "even if I did it wrong, I've done it wrong every single day for 44 years." "I recorded all this out of a personal interest in the weather. And because I’ve done it for so long, it has some benefit and some value. It wasn’t like I was some sort of forethinker, thinking ‘Oh, I’m going to write all this down and have absolutely no life whatsoever so I can stay here for 50 years,’ ” "Scientifically, my data are good because I had no goals, therefore no one can say ‘Well, you are just taking data to prove a point.’ It’s just numbers. I just wrote them down,” he says. “It’s the same person in the same location doing it in the same method, so even if I did it wrong, I did it wrong every single day for 44 years.”

That's absolutely nuts. Crested Butte is high enough that they get those heavy moist snowfalls when it's rain at 7-8000ft and below but then mix it in with the dry continental snows. Though their snowpack in town seems more "man-snow" than high desert fluff you see elsewhere in Colorado/Utah/Wyoming/Montana. They do get plenty of high ratio stuff I'm sure but there's just that "look" to it that means the snow has some body to it. I guess their best snows would be SW/S/SE flow stuff given their position in the Rockies which is probably of the more moisture rich variety. Northerly flow has to cross a lot of high terrain from Vail, Aspen, etc before getting to them.

The CoCoRAHS records are incredible out of there. Check out this period in early March. 10 days, 6.90" water and 79.5" snow. Craziest thing is the depth compacting on itself. See this on Mansfield a lot at the summit. Towards the end there it snowed 8.5" with depth increase 2". Then another 10.5" snow with depth only going up 2". I was so interested as it's obscene to see the daily snow/water that goes into a 380" season.... this is the guy/site there, just up the road from Crested Butte resort entrance: Looks like he's holding some sort of coring device and the snowboard he uses looks similar to what we put on Mansfield. He's done twice daily obs since the 1970s when he came there as a ski bum...that's some JSpin level dedication.

Now this is some May. Just north of the town of Crested Butte, CO... looks to be just up the road past the base of the ski resort when you plot the coordinates. 41" of snow this month with a depth over 30" still on May 23rd Whoever does this station is real diligent and got 380" of snow this winter with a max depth of 93". Thats like living at the Mount Mansfield Stake climate.

What river/creek/brook/etc floods the park and ride? I know where the park and ride is off Stowe Street there but is it the waterway that follows RT 100 further north a bit across from Ben and Jerry's? I heard that thing was almost about to cross RT 100 there near Guptil Road (where the new traffic light when in) at like 7am this morning. Anyway, last night's rain almost doubled May's precipitation total here of ~5.75".

Holy crap that was some rain last night...more impressive rain event in a while obviously with these numbers. My stratus cracked over the winter and haven't gotten a new one but the half ass garden rain gauge says 2.25-2.5" but I'd estimate halfway between those values so 2.35-2.4" or so. The guy in the Stowe Lower Village had 2.53". J.Spin with 2.78" and even a 3"+ west slope of Camels Hump. Fresh tree in the river this morning, root ball and tiny green leaves so it was growing happily yesterday. No mas. Can also see some of the smaller creeks crossed RT 108 like by Topnotch Resort. It must've been mayhem in the river and feeder creeks at like 3am last night. Humid torrential rain and still high Mtn snowmelt... I think that was the final blow to skiing.  Now can finally say "Shut 'em Down" at Stowe.

It's working its way north... Newport, VT just cracked 60F while it's 80F here... same 750ft elevation just 20 miles north.

Haven't hit up here yet but they are coming. Still no bugs, enjoying it while it lasts.

Nice Backedge. Looks beautiful down there. Bit more clouds up this way... the snow pack level is retreating up the slopes. Mountains still largely look like "stick season" though some light green is starting to head up to the lower slopes.

We've lucked out on the past two afternoons.

Yeah dropping in on those chutes above Bypass is pretty rugged. Takes a healthy pack to get through there. That's incredible. There will definitely still be a snowpack up there when the Toll Road opens for Memorial Day weekend. That 5 foot mark is historically hit in early to mid February, too. That scene in your photo could be like President's Weekend in a normal winter.

So that photo, J.Spin, looks like 5 feet? Yesterday's climate report shows 47". But there's no reading on this evening's climo report... wonder why? But there's no way a foot of snow fell either? Wonder if it's the angle of the camera there being high and looking down on it that gave it 47" yesterday?

I love this, dude! I mean that could be January with a 5-foot snowpack right there and fresh snow on everything. One of the best photos of the Stake set-up I've seen in a while.