michsnowfreak

Congrats central Ohio. Of course I'm jealous it didn't hit further north, but it's well deserved!

Cumulative. For consecutive, the top 5 longest streaks consecutive days 1"+ snowcover are: 1.) 81 days - Dec 12, 1903 - Mar 1, 1904 2.) 77 days - Dec 31, 2013 - Mar 17, 2014 3.) 73 days - Dec 11, 1944 - Feb 21, 1945 3.) 73 days - Jan 1, 1978 - Mar 14, 1978 5.) 72 days - Jan 8, 1912 - Mar 19, 1912 Top 5 longest streaks consecutive days T+ snowcover 1.) 119 days - Nov 25, 1903 - Mar 22, 1904 2.) 110 days - Dec 9, 2013 - Mar 28, 2014 3.) 109 days - Dec 6, 1977 - Mar 25, 1978 4.) 101 days - Nov 30, 1919 - Mar 9, 1920 4.) 101 days - Dec 6, 1962 - Mar 16, 1963

I broke down Modoki La Ninas at Detroit, since Ive heard it may be Modoki. But I also want to look at 1st year Nina and Nino-Nina transitions to look for any trends. Main trend I see is, for a change, December is our friend. MODOKI LA NINAS Oct Nov Dec Jan Feb Mar Apr May Tot 1973–1974 0 0.1 16.4 14.1 11.2 5.7 1.7 0 49.2 1975–1976 0 6.5 19.8 15.1 4.9 7.5 2.1 0 55.9 1983–1984 0 3.5 19.9 9.9 8.7 9.7 0.1 0 51.8 1988–1989 T 1.0 6.3 5.3 9.6 2.4 0.5 T 25.1 1998–1999 0 0 1.2 27.3 7.8 13.2 0 0 49.5 2000–2001 T 1.3 25.1 3.4 2.9 5.4 0.9 0 39.0 2008–2009 0 2.2 21.4 25.2 8.5 1.0 7.4 0 65.7 2010–2011 0 T 9.3 17.9 31.7 8.6 1.6 0 69.1 2016–2017 0 0.1 16.8 11.8 2.2 6.9 0.1 0 37.9 Avg 0 1.6 15.1 14.4 9.7 6.7 1.6 0 49.2 1991-20 avg T 1.9 8.9 13.9 12.2 6.2 1.5 0 45.0

Houghton has never been whats considered a 1st-order station. You can never trust any of that data. Marquette didnt become a 1st order station until 1961.

The UP is a different ballgame, especially with their lake belts, terrain, etc, but for Detroit, if you REALLY want futility, everything has to go wrong, not just some things. Some examples would be a warm, wet Nino that turns cold, dry & suppressed. Or a wall to wall warm winter where the cold shots have little snow with them. Its futility for a reason. Anytime we get an undesirable winter, people talk futility. And its way worse after being spoiled rotton with a parade of record snow seasons from the mid-2000s to mid-2010s. Look at this season as a whole. December was horrible...doesnt mean Oct/Nov snow doesnt count. Yeah, winter was largely confined to 2 weeks in January. But we had a parade of snows, one after the other. It wasnt just a little 1 inch snow followed by 10 days of brutal cold. Plow drivers were putting in 100-hour weeks in that 10-day spell. That all count. Yesterdays snow didnt last a full day. It counts. And so does whatever happens the rest of the way.

DTW is at 21.8", so if not another flake fell it would only be #11 as well. And we all know with 2 more months of snow potential that is extremely unlikely. Terrible as the winter has been, we were not gonna run futility with a stretch like the one we saw in January.

Knowing Easter is March 31st this year, I joked with my mom as we handed out candy to trick or treaters through snow squalls, that with a snowy Halloween, we would have no snow on Christmas and a white Easter. One down...one to go.

I was born in May 1983 & never knew that!

Hope you overperform tonight. Indiana/Ohio have definitely been screwed, but dont leave our sub! I mentioned not long ago that there has been an unusual disparity between Detroit & Toledo many, many times since 2015-16. Ive seen countless systems where its as if Mother Nature makes the state line of MI and OH/IN her rain/snow line. Historically, Detroit averages 8" more per year than Toledo, but the last 8 years its been 15" more per year. Things even out eventually, so I have no doubt some good times for IN and OH are coming. What better place to start than a La Nina next winter?

Yesterday was one of the weirdest I can recall. My ring camera records a daily timelapse and it was crazy. bare to instant white which then melted off. I am putting the cart before the horse because every day counts and you know damn well it can snow through April. But this winter will rank much worse in snowcover than snowfall lists here. To-date, Detroit has only seen 28 days with a Trace or more on the ground. Keep in mind, a T snow depth is either a dusting (0.4 or less) or patches/skiffs of old snow. So a T of snow depth is not a blanket of snow, and while the observer in me is certainly anal about putting 0 when 0 and T when T, the better metric for snowcover IMO is days with 1"+. Plus its a much easier metric to track over the period of record. And to date, Detroit has only seen 18 days with 1"+ on the ground. The peak snow depth was 7", which is not bad. But the amount of days in total is horrible. The yearly average is 49 days, the all-time low being 10 days (1936-37) & high 96 days (2013-14). *note- I only have snowcover since 1906, although Id estimate the true all-time low is either 1881-82 or 1889-90. Ive estimated about 8 days probably for 1881-82 and only maybe 5 days in 1889-90.

Funny you mention 2002-03. I was born in 1983, so that was my 20th winter, and at that time, it was my favorite! I recorded 66.9" of snow, the snowiest of my life to date. DTW had 60.9". Growing up in mostly subpar 90s winters, 2002-03 was a huge shock for me. And I agree with Liberty, it IS underrated, even by my own self, because while it really took the spotlight, it was quickly overshadowed by 2004-05, 2007-08, 2008-09, 2010-11, 2013-14. As for great/crappy winters, Ive noticed that being in eastern MI it can really go either way, which is why though I primarily frequent the lakes forum, I often pop into New England/NYC as well to read discussions (& comment when I feel like it lol). During a particularly good (or bad) winter in the midwest, we can either be on the eastern fringe of that pattern and blend in with the rest of the midwest, OR we can more mimick the eastern pattern and differ from the rest of the midwest (2002-03 & 2004-05 are good examples of this). The same for the east, we can be on the western fringe of that pattern & more closely mimick the east, or we could blend in with the rest of the midwest. Plus add in the unknown of the lake influence. We are not in the lake belt, but we do get influence from the lake in terms of enhancing some shortwaves and of course SOME pure lake effect. So really, sometimes Michigan feels like its own region for weather. I decided to look at the top 30 snowiest/least snowy winters for both Detroit & Boston since the overall snow average is very similar (both are at all time highs in the last 30-year record period, which will likely go down some the next one). While the snow climo is similar, Boston can be a bit more feast or famine. Its not as comprehensive as analyzing every winter, but it definitely goes to show the variety. DTW POR avg (1880-2023)- 40.9” --- 1991-2020 avg- 45.0” BOS POR avg (1890-2023)- 42.7” --- 1991-2020 avg- 49.2” Low snow winters that made BOTH Detroit & Bostons bottom 30: 1918-19: DTW #4 (15.2”) – BOS #19 (21.1”) 1931-32: DTW #24 (26.2”) – BOS #13 (18.4”) 1936-37: DTW #1 (12.9”) – BOS #1 (9.0”) 1941-42: DTW #16 (23.4”) – BOS #25 (23.9”) 1954-55: DTW #30 (27.3”) – BOS #28 (25.1”) 1979-80: DTW #28 (26.9”) – BOS #5 (12.5”) 1988-89: DTW #20 (25.1”) – BOS #8 (15.5”) 1997-98: DTW #16 (23.4”) – BOS #29 (25.6”) 1999-00: DTW #18 (23.7”) – BOS #26 (24.4”) 2011-12: DTW #23 (26.0”) – BOS #2 (9.3”) Snowy winters that made BOTH Detroit & Bostons top 30: 1892-93: DTW #18 (59.9”) – BOS #15 (66.0”) 1898-99: DTW #17 (60.2”) – BOS #12 (70.9”) 1903-04: DTW #21 (57.0”) – BOS #11 (72.9”) 1922-23: DTW #22 (56.9”) – BOS #16 (65.9”) 1977-78: DTW #13 (61.7”) – BOS #6 (85.1”) 1981-82: DTW #4 (74.0”) – BOS #22 (61.8”) 1992-93: DTW #29 (52.2”) – BOS #7 (83.9”) 2002-03: DTW #15 (60.9”) – BOS #12 (70.9”) 2004-05: DTW #11 (63.8”) – BOS #5 (86.6”) 2008-09: DTW #10 (65.7”) – BOS #16 (65.9”) 2010-11: DTW #6 (69.1”) – BOS #8 (81.0”) 2013-14: DTW #1 (94.9”) – BOS #28 (58.9”) 2017-18: DTW #14 (61.0”) – BOS #26 (59.9”) Winters that made the top or bottom 30 on OPPOSITE LISTS for Detroit & Boston 1899-00: DTW #6 most (69.1”) – BOS #28 least (25.0”) 1944-45: DTW #21 least (25.8”) – BOS #27 most (59.2”) 1947-48: DTW #26 least (26.6”) – BOS #4 most (89.2”) 1960-61: DTW #9 least (18.0”) – BOS #23 most (61.5”) 1985-86: DTW #27 most (54.2”) – BOS #13 least (18.1”)

What a wild day. The wind is howling now and all the snow is gone except where people shoveled.

Different story here. Liberty is correct in that most Nina's following ninos are decent snow wise. There are some exceptions, but the majority are decent. In fact, of the ones you listed, the only clunker snow seasons here were 1954-55 and 1995-96.

I guess it's jumping way ahead, but snowy Winters in the great lakes and upper midwest are common in la nina's. And with an active storm track we certainly don't need a cold winter, just not the crap we had most of this winter.

Well, you've had your easing in, next winter, you can leave that crap down south

Oh wow I didn't realize you were still that low. Have you kept track of how many days you've had snow on the ground?

See down here you would have loved it lol. Blinding snow, 2 inches fell in one hour and then throughout the day it melted. I expected nothing to be honest, so it was awesome to see. But it doesn't matter how good or bad the winter is, how much or little snow we have, I HATE watching snow melt. I know Beavis hears me on that.

The winter post mortem will be interesting to analyze the entire snow season. goes without saying that mean result SUCKS, but there have been some interesting quirks.

35 dbz on radar. This was a steve snow. Blinding heavy snow followed promptly by melting. It's nearly all gone now.

It was like an April snow burst. The air was choked with massive flakes, instant Winter wonderland, and now, by late afternoon, only a few skiffs remain.

It was like a cloudburst of snow. It was wild. I was not expecting anything really, thought we would get rain. Got 2.0" here in basically an hour. DTW had 1.9". Looks like a general 1.5-2" in SE MI and more further north, though rates were probably hardest right in the heart of the metro. Huge flakes too. Its melty now, but was certainly fun while it lasted.

Synoptic seems a crapshoot. Some years we certainly get more, but other years we dont. One thing that often helps us is not just pure "lake effect" but lake enhanced snow. Sometimes a shortwave or clipper will move thru and it gets a boost from Lake MI, increasing snow on this side of the lake. So in that case, you really cant call it lake effect OR synoptic, its more lake enhanced synoptic snow lol.

Exactly and ive said this a hundred times.

Dont flatter yourself. Beavis obviously misunderstood what I meant. Beavis is like me on steroids when it comes to winter, the polar opposite of ALL things YOU stand for in winter. You ve been called out by multiple other posters over the years for your posting AND your exaggerating. The reason people dont think you enjoy small events (which to you is anything under 12") because youve said as much. See, I dont play that game. I like what I like, and I dont waiver from it. I liked the same type of weather through our record snow stretch of 2007-15 that I like in these last 2 lean winters. If you think its turd polishing by posting about the weather ON A WEATHER board, or correcting your misinformation, fine. Ive hated this winter as a whole, not sure how Ive polished it lol.

I'm content with my SE MI climate and take an annual trip up north in late Feb. This is the first time I've ever had a trip planned where I will have little or no snow (Feb 23-26). Bad winters happen. They suck. But they happen.