michsnowfreak

Very interesting. 1933-34 was one of the coldest winters that decade. 1931-32 was a very warm Winter here. Although the frequency of mild winters has increased in recent times, Detroit's top 3 warmest winters (1881-82, 1931-32, 1889-90) stand alone and we have never come close to them in our lifetime. I looked Detroit Free Press to see if the news papers were marvelling at the weather. In those ancient days of the 1880s newspapers certainly had a different (but fascinating) style, so they did not discuss the weather in as much detail as we do now. However they did make numerous references to it, noting boating on the river as if it was summer, no ice being made for summer use, green grass and no snow, budding peach limbs mid winter. But by 1931-32, newspapers had evolved and weather was always a fun topic to discuss. The articles were countless about the insane warm weather, noting things like roses, trees, and dandelions budding and blooming in December and January and there was even a front page story about a butterfly being seen flying around Detroit in early January. The 1st snow to actually cover the grass was not seen until February 4th. The snowiest month was March, the winters worst storm was March 22nd, and as you might guess it was a very cold delayed Spring

Thanks. I know it will change several times anyway, but that's actually how I'd envisioned winter. Riding the gradient in a stormy winter can give us lots of snow (aka 2007-08) but be frustrating for pack lovers. Already had a taste of that this season (6.2" on season, less than 4 full days of full cover).

is southern Michigan on the good side of the gradient lol?

oops yeah, they are called Early American Winters. There were some very harsh winters back then, but also some very mild, "open" winters.

I have a book about upper Michigan weather but also David Ludlum's History of North American winters. fascinating reads.

Not sure, but that was an extremely warm winter. I was looking at Detroit data for winters 1931-32 and 1881-82, those winters were so mild it was crazy. What brings up 1931-32?

Nothing like being in love with a fantasy

To each their own. I hate spring so I've enjoyed the delayed springs of late, more snow and less allergies. you can write off December as a good winter month, but not necessarily write off snow chances. the snowstorm of Nov 30-Dec 1 didn't show up more than a handful of days out as I recall.

No thanks. First of all who said winter is going to blow? its early December lol. Secondly, I can understand wanting an early spring for a change, but a Morch would be agricultural disaster.

I was talking starting in January. models are unanimous in a wet look. hopefully we can get some more snow before Christmas though

True points...also models are overwhelming with a wet look into this region starting in January. So take it all fwiw

Crazy. But that's just how people like to jump the gun. Where in a mile stretch of winters now, but look what happened from 2008 to 2015...lots of cold and heavy snowfall

Yes it was Bill. And it basically had to do with promoting global warming

Nice to hear from you. DTX went for a warmer than average December with average temperatures in January in February. They went above avg precip and average to above average snowfall for the Winter. That's ridiculous of cpc to do that. many years ago, a now retired met told me something similar about how they basically bullied the nws into touting what they wanted. As warm as it was last season finished a hair above avg snow at DTW. I know some don't like "stat padding" snows, but I think they are actually extra impressive when you can see white on Halloween or Mothers Day. We have a lllllong way to go in 20-21.

I can't say that I disagree with your assertion that January may be the best Winter month (at least I think that's what you are implying lol). It would also be interesting if we had an early spring, that is certainly something we are overdue for after several years of unusually late freezing and snowfalls. And while you may be right, I just can not go with below average snowfall in the lower Great Lakes in early December. I can always readjust that mindset in mid January or so depending where we are and where we look like we are headed, but with the overwhelming look of a wetter than average Jan-Apr, I just cannot go below average yet, at least outside the lake belts. Just because I am saying I think snowfall will be averaging above normal does not mean it will be a good winter for ice or snowpack. Detroit, Cleveland, and Toronto are above average to date.

Yeah, it was NAO. Since 2008... 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 2013-14 2014-15 2017-18 6 of the past 12 winters were colder than average. If we look at DJFM you can add 2018-19

just curious, are eps to 360hr on any free site?

gray and cold today with a few flurries. otherwise zzz

lol I'm sure it's plenty. everything modeled never comes to fruition. Winter is coming

I agree. I still think a stormy Winter with plenty of snow was on tap but a majority of the fun will be January on word. I also don't think the rest of December will be a shutout for the sub but it will not be sustained Winter by any means. I made sure to take pictures of my outdoor decorations in the snow this week just in case our bad December luck of the past few years continues. Supposedly gefs shows strat warming in late December, which is a good sign.

A warm winter in the north is still not conducive to most people wanting to be outdoors lol

Winter will come. I'm not a fan of the pattern, but once things get active good things can happen. Retention wise I have a feeling colder air will hit more consistently after Christmas.

EPS is colder, GEFS is warmer. I'm not good with indices and stuff, but that's the basic idea lol.

EPS and GEFS looking very different as we head towards the Solstice

Agree that we are NOT the general public lol. I would say they remember 2000-01 as harsh Because December was very harsh and even though January through April was extremely boring it took until mid February for the snowpack to melt. Plus, this was coming after meh 1990s winters (despite the Jan 99 blizzard). After so many snowy winters the next 2 decades I am not quite sure it would be remembered the same now. 1977-78 is another very front loaded Winter, were Winter was essentially over from active standpoint Room after the January 26th blizzard. But the snowpack did not melt until late March.