michsnowfreak

From a snow perspective 07-08 was heaven but it was king of roller coaster, so I imagine beavis would be infuriated over wasting sdds despite all that snow. I had 78.2" of snow but only 60 days of 1"+ snowcover. Thats getting a surplus of 35" of snow but only 10 extra snowcover days. I think one of the most anomalous winters the opposite way was 1947-48. Detroit only saw 26.8" of snow the entire season however 89 days with 1"+ snow cover. A snowfall deficit of 14" but a snow cover surplus of nearly 40 days. No major snowstorms however 2 big ice storms helped cement in the snow cover as a lot of the time it was cold and dry.

Both Detroit and Chicago do outdoor German themed Christmas markets which are awesome. I've been to both. Unfortunately I doubt they will be doing them this year with everything going on

Unfortunately the extended looked terrible for December so honestly I punted it a while ago. December actually started as a Winter wonderland here with over 4" of snow, however a little over 4 days later it was gone and it has been zzzz ever since

I think I never liked "throw in the towel" because it's so subjective. Throw in the towel on what? Along, sustained Winter? In that case Early to mid January would be that towel being thrown. If we simply talking about getting some good snowstorms, I can't throw that towel for another 4 months. Im armed with way too much weather data on la nina winters to worry about mid December zzzs.

oh I'm referring to January being a solid winter month. December will be crap with some snow chances

I've heard a lot of talk about massive storm potential this winter. I can say this...I will be SHOCKED if the Midwest doesn't have a huge storm this winter. No bets on who the haves and have nots will be though.

2017-18 was for whatever reason way better here than Chicago. it was pretty much constant winter from early Dec to late Feb with a few blips. the cold snap of late Jan 2019 was incredible but otherwise a forgettable winter. Last year, the best period of winter was in November. snow/cold records fell like dominoes. Last winter we had avg snow but below avg snowcover. I use both stats, as I believe both are important. Very few besides you and me look at snowcover stats. it seems I give you a hard time but we really have a lot in common. id easily take a cold snowcover winter over a wild winter of heavy snowfall but not consistent snowpack.

you are completely entitled to your own standards and preferences. but if you have a met degree, im surprised how often you don't seem to realize your standards do not make meteorological sense for your location, nor have they ever. But im even more surprised how in bad periods (like the one we are in now) you act as though winter doesn't or won't exist, which is unbelievably incorrect. Also, you feel that everyone else has too low of standards...I disagree with that across the board, even for myself. I've been on weather forums for 18 years now and I can ASSURE you most weenies have unrealistically high standards. I was on forums during this regions snowiest period on record and promise you that the forums were always full of negative posts about how much winter was sucking.

that is a huge change from the warmth that flooded Canada. the cold building in Canada IS a good sign for down the road.

Since we are in the banter section, I have a curious question about white christmases for other snow lovers. I absolutely love Winter, and I absolutely love Christmas. It goes without saying that I want a white Christmas every year. However, If it is not a white Christmas I enjoy the holiday just as much. I am surprised at how many non-weather folks REALLy want a white Christmas and are disappointed if it's not, but then they complain every time it snows from January through April. Does anyone else notice this?

That was clearly hyperbole. If not, please show me any winter where we have just 2 weeks of it being cold enough to snow . you know, since it snows 5-7 of the 12 calendar months yearly. Averages exist for a reason. the surplus of snow that the lower Lakes saw from 2007-2015 has still not been evened out. And I certainly hope it isn't. but lol do you want me to show you how many snow records ORD has had the past 15 years?

I doubt it, but that would be insane if it happened

Sun today for the first time in a week. We have had 0 precip since the Dec 1 snowstorm, which is very unusual. Usually at least a trace is seen on many if not most days this time of year. This weekends storm will be the first flakes or drops much of northern MI has seen all month.

is there a user friendly website to look up Canadian data? Toronto and Windsor specifically

A 1 or 2 degree increase in temps will not hurt your winter. Chicago's current DJF avg is 26.4°, thatis not borderline lol. Your winters are never going to be to your satisfaction, but plenty of snow is in your future. Subpar snow seasons are trying to flatten the curve from the above avg snow Chicago saw from 2007-2015. I wish you'd move to a superior snowbelt, you'd love it.

I disagree about the no cold winters part locally. Since 2000, the following winters have been colder than avg here 2000-01 2002-03 2003-04 2004-05 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 2013-14 2014-15 2017-18 So 10 below avg, 10 above avg The past 20 winters at Detroit averaged 1.3° above the 20th century avg, but 8.5" snowier than the 20th century avg and 2 days per season more snowcover than the 20th century avg.

Chicago has probably set more snowy records than snow futility records the past decade. They just set October snow records last Winter. in the age of records for anything, you will be able to find records good and bad every season. 2019-20 was the ONLY snow season on record that Chicago saw measurable snowcover in each of 7 straight months

INL has had 4 brown Christmases since 1948.

We had the largest November snowstorm and largest January rainstorm on record last winter lol. The rest of December does not look ideal however it looks much better than it did a few days ago. Sticking with my guns, after New Year the fun begins

I would not call it a good pattern necessarily but it sure as heck does not look as bad as it looked a few days ago. So who knows

That was actually a fun storm in a frustrating met Winter. go to bed at midnight with bare ground and wake up at 6am with 7" of snow.

First week of December actually averaged -0.1° at DTW. Season snowfall of 6.0" is +2.9" to date.

I love discussing past winters, good and bad lol. but yeah winters over posts in early December are laughable.

Feb 2015 was 2nd coldest for Detroit but coldest since 1875. Winter of 2013-14 was severest on record for cold+snow in addition to being the snowiest. December 2015 did manage to nudge December of 1881 out of the top spot for warmest, however February of 1882 still ranks as by far the warmest February on record. In fact, the 2nd warmest February is 3ﾟ colder! January 1882 was much colder than December or February, but was still a good 5ﾟ above normal. Seasonal snowfall in 1881-82 was only 13.2", second least snowy Winter on record period from roughly December 31st to January 6th we had a period of below freezing temperatures and a few inches of snow on the ground. That was literally the only Winter of that entire season. The few other snowfalls that occurred did not last more than one day. 1877-78 and 1879-80 were also extraordinarily warm winters, but by far 1881-82 was the inferno here. For the far upper Midwest, 1877-78 was the famous "year without a winter". If we had an 8 year stretch like this today, every wx weenie would be on medication. Every single one of these winters was very extreme 1 way or the other locally. 1874-75: record cold 1875-76: very warm 1876-77: very cold 1877-78: very warm 1878-79: bitterly cold 1879-80: warm 1880-81: historically severe (unmatched til 2013-14) 1881-82: historically warm and snowless A bit down the road there was another historically warm and snowless Winter in 1889-90.

Very interesting. 1933-34 was one of the coldest winters that decade. 1931-32 was a very warm Winter here. Although the frequency of mild winters has increased in recent times, Detroit's top 3 warmest winters (1881-82, 1931-32, 1889-90) stand alone and we have never come close to them in our lifetime. I looked Detroit Free Press to see if the news papers were marvelling at the weather. In those ancient days of the 1880s newspapers certainly had a different (but fascinating) style, so they did not discuss the weather in as much detail as we do now. However they did make numerous references to it, noting boating on the river as if it was summer, no ice being made for summer use, green grass and no snow, budding peach limbs mid winter. But by 1931-32, newspapers had evolved and weather was always a fun topic to discuss. The articles were countless about the insane warm weather, noting things like roses, trees, and dandelions budding and blooming in December and January and there was even a front page story about a butterfly being seen flying around Detroit in early January. The 1st snow to actually cover the grass was not seen until February 4th. The snowiest month was March, the winters worst storm was March 22nd, and as you might guess it was a very cold delayed Spring