michsnowfreak

Oh I know. I have a few pics from that winter. Better than 78 here. 78 is way overrated HERE. I'd take 81-82 over it. Many winters are underrated. Especially recent ones. Look at Docs post above. We were so spoiled that a "normal" winter was considered terrible in the 2000s/10s. And while we've certainly had some mild winters recently, we still have gotten good snowstorms. To call a few winters a new norm is insane.

That is completely false. If anything, larger snowfalls have INCREASED over the years rather than decreased. I'm sorry you moved to Chicago during an unfortunate stretch, but you missed some of the snowiest seasons on record in this region by a hair. And even, the milder winters have had some good, dynamic snowstorms. The problem in the milder winters is shitty snowcover retention.

Most of the winters since the record smashing SDDs of 2013-15 have been ok here, at least climo wise, with 1 really good winter (2017-18) and several good stretches, but definitely not great overall. I had to peak at data, and Im shocked how much worse Chicago did than Detroit in 2017-18. Wasnt a terrible winter, but definitely not beavis worthy. Although ill say, Chicago had a good winter in 2020-21. Again, not beavis worthy, but very deep snow in Feb.

Interesting. I never pegged you as a snowlover. I pegged you as liking a good storm and then being done with it lol.

Good data. I will work on the rest of it. I have the pre-1948 snow depth as well, for some reason its not in xmacis. As expected...2013-14 was the winner, with an INSANE number of 923! This is 409 MORE than the vaunted winter of 1977-78. And 2014-15 actually comes in 2nd place with 574.

Oh Ive been saying that all along. Its a bit of a regression to get closer to normal, particularly with precip/snowfall. Even with the domination of milder winters since 2016, snowfall has not really suffered from a historical perspective. Since 2016, theres been 1 standout high snow season (2017-18) and 1 standout low snow season (2023-24) and the rest of teetered in the vicinity of average. Thats why its particularly rare of late to see the unseasonably cold pattern since late November yield very poor snow results outside the belts. Im actually going to do the thing that Beavis talks about when I have time (probably after New Years lol) to add up SDDs. Idk if its a metric he made up or not, but its snow depth days. Not the total number of days with snow otg, but adding together each day with snowdepth for a cumulative number. i suspect the 2000s-2010s will dominate that list.

History time lol. We've actually been fortunate in SE MI compared to areas away from the Lakes. It's just been a very bad synoptic start to the season despite the cold start. Funny thing, cold and dry patterns are more rare now than they used to be. Sure we get the occasional CAD stretch in places, but widespread cold for weeks with almost nothing synoptic to show for it regionwide is more rare. This was another thing that made the 1930-1969 stretch so unbearable for snowlovers locally. In addition to many very mild winters (esp 1930s & 1950s), many of the colder ones were cold and dry. The 1940s especially had a knack for long cold stretches with just light snowfall, then a big rain or ice storm then back to CAD. For me personally 1995-96 is what I think of when I think lots of cold and little snow. Obviously this winter is very young, just an observation of what's happened so far.

You misunderstood me. Like I said. Weather on weather board is really becoming taboo. It's why SO many good posters are long gone and many of the ones left are just here because we've been for so long.

I literally said that a 1-2" snowfall would be a nice way to kick off the winter solstice, and that there's been no days of 2"+ depth yet. How in the phuck is that putting lipstick on a turd? I guess I have to remember that discussing the weather or weather stats on a weather board is no longer acceptable.

The warm up doesn't look to last too long. Im not worried about the cold returning. I'm just more concerned we get into a more active pattern.

Not to mention most of Canada will still remain snow covered after the warm stretch.

Oh I know. But 1-2" is better than nothing. Nice way to kick off the winter solstice. So far this season, DTW has had 7 days with 1" of snow on the ground, another 6 days with a T, but no depth of 2" or greater yet.

idk about that. Itll definitely eat into the departure, but id imagine most will still finish Dec slightly colder than avg.

I was wondering why it was weakening. I knew it was something lol. Although still looks good for a little snow here, which will be festive for the week leading up top Christmas.

I agree. Good patterns don't always produce and bad ones sometimes do. The much maligned winter of 2022-23 sucked, but there were multiple good, dynamic winter storms. We had 3 storms (2 snow, 1 ice) that had multiple rounds of thunder & lightning. And a few more that produced courier and ives scenes due to the wet snow. I'd be remiss if I didn't acknowledge that. But as a fan of sustained winter, it's a winter I'd soon forget. Now to start 2024-25, we've had plenty of cold but have been stuck in a dry pattern with nothing but lake effect snow. Things aren't always as cut and dried as "what are the temps like?".

One of the reasons the NWS moved the "official" site around in the past is to find an area representative of the region. When UHI or concrete or something else becomes too much of an issue, they move it. Remember, in the 1800s the roads were mostly dirt and there was a lot less UHI influence around. The problem we face now is that many bustling airports are so full of concrete that theres nothing they can do about the UHI influence. Of course the ASOS/Weather station is located in a grassy area, but theres nothing that can be done due to the influence of so many nearby runways. I see this at DTW all the time. DTW airport is in a suburb and OUTSIDE of the airport the area radiates very well. But its much warmer on radiational nights at the official site. On Feb 20, 2015, I drove by at 7am on the way to work. I literally passed JUST south of the airport (as in, probably less than a mile from airport property) and my car (which usually reads warm) read -22F. The official low was -13F. It just is what it is.

So add all the days of snow depth together for a final number? This is an interesting idea. I think I may play around with my local data some. But unlike temps, precip, snowfall, and number of days with snowcover, theres no online way to calculate it other than manually. Although I can tell you off the bat, the winner in the entire period of record - and it wont even be CLOSE - is 2013-14. I am guessing 1977-78 is #2. This may be a fun post-christmas project for me. Ill let you know when I get it done for Detroit, may do it for Chicago too.

I cant believe it needs to be said every single time its discussed. I know some like to start a dataset in 1960 or 1970 when winters turned SHARPLY colder than the previous several decades. But climate data did not start in 1960 or 1970. For some wild reason, Im not a fan of holding the coldest winters in the entire period of record as the baseline for what is "normal". I like to look at local climate trends, what has changed, and what hasnt. Chicagos winters have certainly warmed since the 1960s...but in the 1960s and 1970s they noticably COOLED from previous decades. PERIOD OF RECORD REGRESSION LINE DATA: Detroit snow 1874-2024: 40.6” to 41.3” = +0.7” over 151 years Chicago snow 1885-2024: 32.5” to 41.0” = +7.5” over 140 years New York City snow 1900-2024: 32.1” to 24.4” = -7.7” over 156 years Detroit DJF temps 1874-2024: 25.9F to 28.2F = +2.1F over 151 years Chicago DJF temps 1873-2024: 26.7F to 27.0F = +0.3F over 152 years New York City DJF temps 1869-2024: 31.0F to 36.6F = +5.6F over 156 years

Lol. You need to hold your horses. Who said you have to punt winter? It's a ridiculous statement. I don't even see this supposed bam video, so I can't comment on it's content. But come on!

Funny thing, this is my smallest tree in about 5 or 6 years. I "downsized" because I'm hosting Christmas Eve for about 28 or 30 people. How cool that you get it from your woodlot! It's always tradition for me and some family to cut ours down right after Thanksgiving, but we go to a nice treefarm.

I'll say it one more time. The last few seasons are leveling the playing field in Chicago after multiple winters that were much harsher than normal. You have nothing to worry about in chicago regarding cold snaps and snowstorms, that's not changing. But it'll never be the climate you want. In all but the most historic winters (ie 1978-79, 2013-14) you're gonna see bare ground at times in DJF, just as you will see snowfalls in Fall and Spring. Its just the climo. Pack up and move to Marquette

Over the span of 6 years (2014-2019) we saw about 4-5 rounds of cold low temps in the lower Great Lakes that we went decades without seeing in the 1940s-50s. It absolutely can still get cold.

Oh I didn't recall.

A turn colder in Jan has a strong signal on euro weeklies. But this whole turning colder Dec 25-30 idea was bad from the getgo. It's been a pretty cold Dec anyway, so if it turned colder Dec 25-30, when would we fit in the mild pattern that was to precede the next turn cold?

What even is a SDD? Isn't it something you made up? I remember its something like 2"+ snowcover and a high below 20 or something. You literally once called 2013-14 a "decent" winter lmao. As for stats, they have been posted over and over on our Lakes forum, so you should be familiar with them. You also should be aware that Chicago winters haven't changed the way east coast winters have. You use Chicago's most severe winters on record as a baseline. I mean, I love snow probably as much as you, but as everyone in the lakes forum knows, you'll never be satisfied with your winters. You don't want to know the results for Chicago's snow on the ground stats. You know why? Because the 2000s and 2010s had better snowcover than EVERY decade since the 1920s with the exception of the 1970s.