michsnowfreak

Honestly, i dont mind them getting a snowstorm. It something they literally never get to see. Let em enjoy. itll be gone in 2 days.

I would guess/assume that the arrangement is based out of necessity. Perhaps some sites are more user friendly than others to measure snow. I THINK i read somewhere it has to be 5 miles or less from the site, but im not sure. I think Philadelphias is actually measured in NJ ironically enough lol (obviously PHL is on border).

A once in 5 lifetimes event down there. Crazy.

I see Rochester, MN was -20F with 0 snow on the ground. Anyone know todays coldest readings for an area with absolutely no snowcover?

Exactly. Its not as if you dont want to do it, its that your location makes it impossible. The DTW snow site is approx 2-3 MI E of the south side of the airport. Flint also has a similar thing. Im surprised all the northern MI sites do as well, as I wouldnt think it would be as difficult as those airports, but apparently it is. Ive heard TOL is like 3-4 miles SW of the airport, but cant confirm.

I chatted with a now-retired DTX met many years ago about this exact situation, and you have said it perfectly. The FAA did such a terrible job with taking control of the weather obs, including sometimes reporting a snow measurement that was oddly high but far more often reporting one clearly too low, that sometimes the DTX mets had to make judgment calls in adjusting the snow data for official purposes by using nearby reports. They also werent super cooperative (FAA that is). Then ASOS became the end all with the FAA, and AT FIRST, they werent allow to alter ASOS data. In its infancy, ASOS did a terrible job with dry snowfall, and to this day, some of the records are stuck with ridiculous low-balled liquid totals. This particularly affected DTW during the cold winter with heavy dry snowfall of 2002-03. Some of the ridiculous data thats in the books- Dec 2 snowstorm 5.8" had 0.11" water. Dec 24/25 snowstorm 6.5" had 0.16" water. Jan 2 snowfall 5.3" had 0.11" water. Feb 10/11 snowfall 3.2" had 0.02" water. Feb 22/23 snowstorm of 7.3" had 0.14" water. Mar 5th snowfall 4.1" had 0.04" water. The winter of 2002-03 is officially listed as Detroits driest winter on record, and thats pathetic. While precip was below avg (it was almost all dry snow), I had a rain gauge by then can assure that that winter realistically was probably somewhere between 20th and 25th driest, not #1. As the years went on, ASOS improved greatly with dry snowfall and NWS could alter the liquid totals if need be. Today, ASOS does a very good job in all but the real, dry fluffy snow. But you still need all that man-power. Not just to actually measure snow, but to be a real-live weather observer. ASOS can malfunction easily. Ive also heard from another region that ASOS can have an error within 2F before they rush to fix it. Thats wild. I think RIGHT NOW, with so many dedicated snow-paid observers, weather observers, and some good NWS mets, we are in a decent spot where we can overcome any FAA fuss and still have good quality weather data. But we will ALWAYS need man-power, so FAA needs to give it a rest. Its already terrible to see how detailed weather books were 100 years ago compared to now, lets not drop any further.

Dressed real warm and thought I'd go for a winter hike in the park. It ended up being a short walk. The wind chill was too much even for me, couldnt stop tearing up.

DTX has had snow paids for years as when the NWS moved from DTW to White Lake in 1995 the FAA was not doing a great job. It makes sense to have a snowpaid observer in a nearby proper measuring area rather than airports that are making it increasingly difficult to measure on site. Ever since chicagostorm mentioned the T depth thing, I've been browsing a bunch of f6s. It seems almost every NWS except LOT includes T depths in their f6 (whether it's in the FAA logs or not). I get that the FAA has their thing, but no reason official weather data shouldn't be precise as it has been for well over a century.

1/5/14 PV all day for me

It's so confusing. Have we had a decent storm yet this winter? No. But many if not most haven't. And NO ONE had had a storm thats up to his criteria. Suddenly a 4-8" storm elsewhere is decent but when we get that its nowhere near good enough. And all from a computer screen by a palm tree. It's telling when the only like he gets is from a fellow troll. Unless he deletes his post history, you can find some true gems from years past. God forbid someone actually enjoys what their dished out with winter instead of sitting at home throwing a tantrum about it. In fact I may go on a frozen hike tmrw at a metropark. Have the day off, why not.

Whether it snows good in April or not, the wild up and down from tastes of summer to tastes of winter and back againwill surprise him. Looking much more active for this region as the jet stream lifts north to end January into February. Let's see if it actually pans out

I'm more a baseball than football fan. But I was certainly pulling for them. My baseball superstition followed me as I just HATED how "favored" they were. The underdog team always shows up to kill.

Not even a major snowstorm. He has said many times he wouldn't come home for a 6-12" snowstorm. It must be nearly apocalyptic. I remember him ridiculing the 2021 storm that dropped 8-10", even though it left 12-18" of snow on the ground area wide in its wake, and now he "doesn't recall it". He actually complained about the historic 2013-14 winter. You know, the one with 94.9" of snow, record cold, and record annihalating snowdepth in the double digits for MONTHS...because no single storm had over 12". Of course, the following winter had the GHDII storm where DTW got 16.7", but that storm was ridiculed for taking too long (it was like 26 hours). Meanwhile if the east coast gets a 3-6" or 4-8" storm, no matter how long it's been.. watch out! His M.O. is clear.

Thanks. Definitely fortunate to have some snow considering so many areas dont, but it's still frustrating when you get a random mini thaw to take away 2/3 of your snowpack during a winter full of suppression. Not gonna lie though, it is fun to walk on that crunchy hard stuff when it freezes solid lol. Hoping for much more activity for our sub the 2nd half of winter. Weeklies say we will, but you know the drill with that.

The cold is filtering in and everything is turning icy following last nights pointless rain. Ready for the Arctic hounds to unleash.

It's kind of the complete opposite of 2022-23. That winter was so mild but we were able to get multiple potent winter storms. This winter so far had just been suppression city. No lack of cold at all, but a lack of synoptic precip. Ice fisherman should be in their glory this year.

I can't "spin" a winter into anything until it's over. Snowfall and temps being avg, below, or above avg is literally not even debatable. It is either avg, above, or below. See, i like winter, so yeah im going to prefer a colder whiter winter over a warmer one, even when its not snowing as much as id like. Oh and we've had multiple warning criteria snowstorms the last 6 years (7 storms of 6"+), as has been pointed out many times.

Atlanta hasn't gotten more than Chicago. But this pattern unfortunately is what suppression city gets you

As do i look forward to your continuous lies and exaggerations about recent/past winters and storms (which are constantly proven wrong by me and others). It's kind of wild how it bothers you so much that I like all aspects of winter, especially since you don't even live here most of winter.

Picked up 0.30" of rain and a trace of snow early this morning. Even when a thaw isn't anything impressive (warmest was 38°) seems to maximize its irritation factor. Sunny all day yesterday and then dewpoints to 36° overnight with the rain. About 1-2" of snowpack left which is glaciating. The type where yards/parks/protected areas are 95% covered but near busy roads it's a mix of grass/snow. At least it'll be mostly white.

lol of course theres a shot at a late winter snow. Your area can literally get snowstorms into April. But theres absolutely nothing in mid-January that is going to shed any light on whether or not you get a big storm the remainder of this winter.

I think any snow melting weather is gross lol. I loathed seeing the sun today haha.

So true about lake effect. We see lots of flakes from lake effect here but are never in those insane bands so dont know the pleasure of having 3 feet while 10 miles away has nothing. Today will only be the 2nd day of January at Detroit to not see any snowfall. DTW is at 12.5" on the season but at least we have snowcover and the lake ice is getting thicker by the day (other than the blip of mild weather today). Not at all the pattern youd expect in a La Nina but its definitely winter.

Agree. I've always said it and the last many years have magnified it. I'll take our climate any day over the east. Way too feast or famine there. It's been nice to have the daily snow. Certainly have to think the pattern will change as shown. While it likely won't allow everyone to score big, it will certainly bring more winter storms to the region.

The dreaded thaw before the cold today. Snowpack is 4" and has some good bulk to it. But hate seeing the sun and above freezing temps. Should definitely lose some. Then tonight rain develops and turns to wet snow then temps crash tmrw.