psuhoffman

If you think pandemic response policy should fall under individual and not collective action we will have to agree to disagree. But the preponderance of evidence and public opinion is not on your side with that belief.

@SnowGolfBro here is the problem with a lot of your argument. You’re coming at the question of when to open backwards. Our best virology experts should use all the available relevant evidence to formulate a plan to reopen and a metric for when it is safe to do so. When a State meets that criteria then by all means they should begin to implement the plan to ease restrictions. But a lot of your policy advocacy is based on anecdotal things like “I know people are fed up”. What does those feelings of frustration have to do with whether it is safe to open? The virus doesn’t care about our feelings. Then you support that anecdotal based view with cherry picked data or speculation about the data with the obvious motive of validating your feelings. You aren’t letting logical scientific methodology drive your policy. Your preferred policy is driving your methodology.

The false equivalencies being made aren’t fooling anyone. People need to stop. It’s kinda insulting when you post something people would have to be stupid to believe. Examples I’ve seen lately Comparing the rate of “confirmed” covid infections to “estimated” flu infections. Comparing the spread of covid during extreme mitigation measures to the spread of other viruses during limited or no measures. Comparing the spread of a virus in one society to another with a completely different population density or culture. Projecting similar results of a policy from one culture onto another. Comparing the mortality of confirmed covid cases to the mortality of estimated cases of other viruses. Bringing up one variable to discredit one data set then ignoring its effect on the other you are comparing it too.

Fake news

That’s rhetorical right?

You’re being really generous there!

It had been a long season with a few bumps. I bet given a year off he at least starts off as a force. Whether he can make it through a whole season is a legit question though.

Just like your posts unfortunately...

The current measures are uneven and not enough. Some banks. Some landlords. Some utilities. It’s a patchwork incomplete system. But the bigger problem is this creates imbalances rage do threaten the system. Some debts do still need to be serviced. Some people still need to be paid. A total freeze of all financial obligations for a set period doesn’t create those same inequities and imbalances. There would still be some and it would require some intelligent monetary interventions by the government to mitigate but far less trouble than the crazy uncoordinated patchwork measures now. Yes it can’t last forever. Even the smaller imbalances and gaps would eventually create huge problems but it can be done for a while.

Ok so let’s try 90 days...so far we haven’t done it at all so not sure what your point here is. I never said freeze forever! And I never said there are no consequences but it’s a manageable problem. Lesser of evils and all that Jazz. But the main consequences of that policy would be the executives at these institutions would have to stop drawing multi million dollar salaries during the emergency freeze. I think most could live with that...the alternative on the other hand...

Oh really??? That’s news to me. I must have missed those clauses when I taught Constitutional Law. Must have been in invisible ink somewhere after eminent domain and double jeopardy. If you are referring to the procedural and substantive due process clauses you are “implying” a right that is not clearly expressed. As such the federal courts become the arbiter as with all implied powers cases. And the precedence is that the government has quite a wide berth when asserting emergency powers for the public health and safety. In those situations suspensions of most liberties has been deemed acceptable in the past. As for the points about businesses and financial institutions needing those payments...not if you freeze financial obligations on both ends. Both to AND FROM those institutions. They wouldn’t need to service their debt or obligations either until it’s over.

If that’s your justification why not advocate we freeze all debts/rents/utilities? That would accomplish the same thing without risking lives!

Maybe it will go smoothly but this assertion has huge holes. With everything shut down there is no pressure to go to work. Once things open many won’t have the ability to stay home if the boss says get back to work. And before you say “those people can’t afford to be home now, that’s only true because we chose not to freeze all debts, rents and utilities like some other nations did. Plus there would be no further assistance if things are declared “back to normal”. Finally if this does cause a flare up it increase the risk to the essential employees still working. Maybe it works but it’s not the “free choice” utopia you sell it as.

The weekly variance is very likely due to the decreased staffing to process information over the weekend. The “unprocessed” data over the weekend ends up dumped into the Monday/Tuesday reports. But it’s not as big a deal as “some” are proposing wrt reliability. Yes it skews single day data. But we (and no one of importance is anyways) shouldn’t be using any single day to draw meaningful conclusions. Since the phenomenon is logical and consistent every week the fluctuations do not impact the longer term weekly trends. The daily flux is predictable and can be factored into the analysis. I’m not saying this for your benefit, just pointing it out in general because I think the reliability of data is very important in this situation. Some numbers are not as applicable as others for various reasons, but some are wrt trends. But some have questioned the entire legitimacy of all data due to what is a very logical, common, and predictable weekly variation in processing.

No thanks I’m good

I can’t believe people are still arguing with him in the covid thread.

Naw, he is bitter though

Don’t question him he stayed at a holiday inn express last night. I stopped going down his rabbit holes days ago. It’s apparent he is trolling.

We aren’t finding out anything new. Was there any doubt a segment of our societies penchant for either “rugged individualism” or “selfishness” depending on who you are taking to, would be a huge problem in dealing with any problem that requires collective action and sacrifice? Isn’t this the main reason we haven’t been able to deal with any number of recent pressing issues? Healthcare? Gun violence? Education? Infrastructure? Poverty? We can’t solve lots of problems because there is a portion of our population that doesn’t want to sacrifice a darn thing for the good of anyone else and they even constructed a narrative that we are all better off that way! Great thread getting at exactly what I was saying wrt IDR the other day and how even if it’s lower the comps to influenza are invalid. Unfortunately all anyone on the “this is no big deal” side of the debate is going to get out of that is “fake news”. So accepting this narrative, you think letting what happened in NYC happen across the whole US in every urban area is acceptable? Don’t bother... It’s a rhetorical question in case you couldn’t tell! Yea except lashing out and emotional response is exactly what you want. You trigger people so you can accuse them of being triggered. It’s an intellectually dishonest endeavor. It’s also hypocritical because you get triggered quite easily. I’m out. See you all tomorrow

Don't waste your time

Something is slipping

Yea I tapped out of this mess last night. But good luck going down his rabbit holes. 1st Amendment dude...love it or leave it.

That’s 4chan tinfoil hat stuff. Sweden is a much less urban population. Sweden has far less international travel. Sweden did ask people to self quarantine and social distance voluntarily. But Sweden is still doing significantly worse than their Scandinavian neighbors, up to 15 times worse, which is a better comp. We didn’t implement social distancing in time. We waited about 2 weeks too long. It’s not as effective when you wait until after there is widespread community spread. Lastly the assertion that Sweden is on the steep downward curve is false. This doesn’t look like they have it under control to me.