snowman19

Just out of curiosity, what makes you say this looks like a modoki La Niña? It looks like a basin-wide event to me for sure, not so sure about it looking modoki though. The new CANSIPS would agree with a stronger La Niña:

Yea, the La Niña driven circulation theme is unanimous among all models for this winter. The new CANSIPS and Euro reflect that:

This is a pretty healthy looking La Niña at the moment. It’s really becoming more of a basin-wide event....region 4 hasn’t stayed this consistently cool for quite a long time:

Thank you. Another question, which ones were +QBO? And do you think the QBO state matters?

Also looks like it will be -PDO and -AMO. Are there any Niña analogs which also featured those same PDO/AMO states?

That is a very disturbing setup for the SE

Looks like the QBO has finally decided to make up its mind, it jumped up to +4.78 last month and has been slowly rising since May. Would assume a +QBO winter at this point....

Looks like this is going to be a +QBO winter, August’s QBO number went up to +4.78

It honestly looks like a typical La Niña “front end loaded” (Dec - mid January) winter. It’s truly amazing that the models continue to advertise +NAO/+AO, just amazingly persistent for years now. December does look more neutral like you said

Developing La Niña, strengthening -PDO, -AMO, inferno SSTs along and off the SE US coast to feedback into the SE ridge/WAR....no shock a hot September is coming up

Read an old article from HM, he showed that a La Niña/+QBO results in a poleward Aleutian ridge in December. A La Niña/-QBO combo results in a flatter Aleutian high in December

Interesting, because Joe D’Aleo’s research showed +QBO/Niña being a bad combo for cold and snow in the east. I wonder what he was looking at to come to those conclusions

95-96 was a weak Niña with a +PDO (strong positive at that), which is very unusual when you have a La Niña. You also were in the midst of a strong +AMO cycle with very warm North Atlantic SSTs, which favor -NAO and positive feedback into that -NAO

Assuming this actually behaves like a “normal” La Niña and is front end loaded, usually December to mid January are cold, late January and especially February usually torch, and March is a toss up, some go back to cold, some stay warmer than normal

That’s the warmest and least snowiest I’ve ever seen Weatherbell go. I was honestly shocked

I honestly thought they ended up being one of the better ones. They had been going cold and snowy until mid-December when they admitted that their winter forecast was going to be a bust and they were pretty spot on for the remainder of the month, Jan, Feb and Mar. There were several others who stubbornly refused to admit they were going to be wrong and kept forecasting blocking, cold and snowy right through February

BAMWX agrees with you. They just tweeted this morning that the signals are growing for a mild winter across the CONUS

IMO the thing that is more disturbing than the PDO right now is the -AMO. That is an ugly North Atlantic if you want negative NAO. Of course this could all be different come November....

Did the PDO state play any role in this? Right now at least, it looks like a healthy negative PDO is taking shape with that big warm pool gaining strength south of the Aleutians

Just read on twitter, supposedly JB thinks the QBO is going positive this fall/winter and he’s calling for an official Niña? If that’s the case then he can’t go cold and snowy on the east coast due to his explanation of why his winter forecast was a bust years ago. This should be very interesting, I have a real hard time believing he’s going to predict a warmer than average winter with below average snow for the east, I think he’s too afraid to lose his base, he’s going to spin this somehow

Yes, I didn’t understand the correlation he made to the summer NAO either. I think what makes more sense is what they mentioned in the New England forum....That this shift to -AMO, with the associated ice cold waters in the North Atlantic, causes a positive feedback loop into the +NAO and allows it to sustain itself. As far as the AO, no offense, but I pay no mind Judah Cohen at all anymore with his SAI. Using Siberian snowcover to predict the AO has been a bust how many times now? Also, how many times have we heard “low solar/solar minimum, -AO winter incoming!”? That’s been another bust. My honest opinion, I think the arctic sea ice melt is actually re-enforcing the +NAO/+AO and making it worse

Never heard that correlation before. The thing you definitely don’t want with a Niña is +NAO/+AO due to the crap Pacific side Ninas normally produce, especially in combination with a -PDO. If you look back at the good Niña winters, they all had -NAO/-AO blocking. 08-09 had more -EPO which was a bit unusual for a Nina. 95-96 had a decent Pacific side due to the strong +PDO which was in place and highly unusual with an established Niña, also had strong AO/NAO blocking. I’m more interested to see how the QBO behaves this fall

I see his post now. Just looked very quickly at NYC winters for the last 41 years, with cold-neutral vs weak La Niña (1979-present) and there doesn’t seem to be a big difference wrt temp and snowfall either. 95-96 and 10-11 being weak La Niña extremes of course

Was there a big difference in snowfall and temperature between weak La Niña winters and cold-neutral winters? I never actually looked into that