I know I get weenied for being too negative, but any realistic look at what's actually happening--notably that -PDO mixed with a nina--tells ya that there's just not much there. While nobody wants to toss a winter before it starts, if there were ever a year where doing that is perfectly logical, it's this one! The evidence is already there--we've got the current indices, and the liklihood of a positive surprise is low. Now eternal optimists for no other than reason than to just be, do you