CPcantmeasuresnow

Winter weather advisory for orange and Putnam County and Western Passaic tonight. Calling for 2 to 3 inches. I'd be overjoyed if we hit the high end.

Jersey snow hole seems to think you're hysterical. I'm feeling some kind of imbalance there.

Let me guess. You're not from LI or the northern and northeast suburbs.

When the Conservancy took over in 2015 I monitored the measurements for the first several years. They seemed to be doing a good job from 2015-2020. If you take the last 5 seasons Central Park has averaged 2.6 inches less than Newark and 2.1 inches less than LGA per year. When you consider that the average snowfall over the last 5 seasons has been 15.8 to 18.4 that's a fairly high percentage difference on the order of 13-16% lower at Central Park vs the two stations it lies in between. This is probably boring to most and probably warrants it's own thread for those that have followed and monitored this for many years.

I live 50 miles north of NYC and I've been complaining for decades. I created this screename in the late 90's on the old Bill Evans AccuWeather weather forum and there was good reason I chose it. I had several discussions with Bill back in that time period and he said he thought the yearly average in CP was probably 4-5 inches higher than what was actually recorded. Years later 2011-2014, I discussed the problem with the NWS many times leading to the change to the conservancy taking the measurements in 2015. They always acknowledged the problem but always stated how difficult it is to get a reliable person to the park to measure. They even asked at one point if I wanted to do it, considering the distance I politely declined. Like I said earlier they then took the measurements from the Central Park zookeeper in late 2014 and started with the Conservancy taking the measurements. To repeat myself it did improve significantly from 2015-2019 but has been pretty much a shit show again since 2020. There are most likely several reasons for their constant under measurements. Where they measure, when they measure, not measuring immediately after events end so there is time for compression, settling or melting and having an organization measuring that doesn't seem to care about accuracy and timeliness.

Consider that the official Measurer, or whatever title you want to give him, was the Central Park Zookeeper from 1992-2014. A period of some of the worst under measured storms of all time. They handed it off to the Conservancy and from 2015-2019 it improved quite a bit. Since 2020 they have been as bad as the zookeeper was.

Whiteout conditions. Awesome.

I'll take my 2.9, if it does happen, and rejoice in my two white Christmas in a row.

What was the issue?

I think the us in here that live in the north may get an inch or two out of it.

Down to 30, snow showers and flurries. Whitened things up a bit on cold surfaces.

I'm calling the consecutive days with snow cover over here today, Highland Mills, at 17 days. It was nice while it lasted hopefully starts again Tuesday.

17 consecutive days of snow cover ends today. Hopefully we start to build a new one on the 23rd.

That would be great if there was someone. I had a friend on another weather forum who lived near the park several years ago. He used to to take measurements himself and 90% of the time they were under measured. Often by 20-30% similar to the storm we just had.

It's about time. Last December ended up normal to 1 degree below normal at most stations, after several ridiculously mild Decembers. If it were not for the big warmup after the white Christmas many of us enjoyed last year it would have been 2-3 below normal.

An interesting Map. In close proximity Due north, south, east and west of Central Park we see 5.3 inches to the north, 6.5 to the south, 6.9 to the east and 6.6 to the west. NWS - "Hey Conservancy at Central Park, how much did you guys get"? Conservancy - "We weren't paying attention but put down 2.9 inches". NWS - "How did you guys get that total?" Conservancy "Well we recorded 1.1 inch at 7 am when a local news station went to the park at 7:30 and measured 3 inches. Then at 1PM after the snow had ended and compressed for a few hours we recorded 2.7 inches, at 7PM, we recorded 2.7 again and then in the daily update at 1am we thought maybe it was 2.9 inches so put that down". NWS - "Thanks for your hard work everyone, very scientific".

5.1 from the recent storm, 8.2 inches for the season. Highland Mills NY in Orange County. Thanks for doing this. Your stuff is great, we all appreciate all the time you put into this.

EWR and JFK are much more aligned with local observations. There is only one observation near central park for 3.1 and that's from a local. A local weather station measured 3 in the park at 8AM yesterday while it was snowing moderately and did so for three more hours. If this was a one time thing you let it go and say who cares, it was probably 3.5 - 4 so they made a mistake, but it happens all the time. It's not like Central Park has a history of accurate snowfall measurements. As you probably know the Central Park Zookeeper kept the snow measurements from 1992 until 2014. That period was terrible for measurements. Most famous were the under measurement during the January 1996 and Boxing Day blizzards of 2010. Both were anywhere from 4-6 inches short looking at all reputable local measurements. Things improved with the Conservancy from about 2015-2018 but started to go downhill again around 2019 or 2020. If it was once in a while you let it go. When it's fairly constant you have to wonder what is going on. Just from yesterday look at the LE from the local stations around CP and you have to figure somebody's off. Temperatures were marginal at all of the stations, and the precip amounts are identical so subsidence did not come into play, so it's questionable whether either would be the reason. NYC .51 inches 2.9 snow JFK .53 inches 4.6 snow EWR .52 inches 4.1 Snow LGA .53 inches 2.6 snow

It's maddening but yet it's seldom addressed. They did try a few times in the 2010's to fix it. Taking away the measurements from the Central Park zookeeper was a good first step. I'm not sure who thought that was a good idea in the first place and why it went on for so long. They then gave it to the Conservancy and they were solid for a couple of years but they don't seem to give a sh!t anymore. I forgot what year it was, maybe 2017/18, NOAA adjusted three Central Park totals at the end of the Winter because they were so egregiously wrong. I've discussed it with them many times through the years and for a while they listened, but they've worn me down. I now just try to ignore it, but it's hard to when it's the so called official measurement for all of NYC.

That at least two people can't measure snow, or don't know when to measure snow, or just don't care.

I can't imagine why. One of the local TV stations measured three inches in the park at 9am when it was still snowing heavily. Anti snow must have fallen after that.

There was nothing wrong with your reaction. The Park under measured . They under measure 90% of the time. They've been doing it for years and it's become worse the last several. I basically ignore their totals now. They are virtually meaningless.

Final storm total 5.1 inches. 8.2 now for the season.

Final storm total 5.1 inches. 8.2 now for the season. Didn't even get an advisory in Orange County. Love these type of surprises. More important, to me at least, 13 days of continuous snow cover and counting.

I know it's rare in this setup, but any chance the storm does not cut west of us? Or transfers to something developing off the coast?