famartin Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Here's the list... again like PHL, I used 2-days (calendar days) as the cut-off, so for any storms which extended further may not be represented properly. I can add them though. Also note that the early period of record, 1920s and 1930s, is COOP data, so it may be a bit low, and I used unofficial numbers for a couple storms in 1999 and 2000. 1922-1923 1923-1924 6 2/20/1924 12 4/2/1924 1924-1925 20.2 1/2-3/1925 6.8 1/27-28/1925 1925-1926 10.6 2/4-5/1926 1926-1927 7.8 2/19-20/1927 1927-1928 12 1/28-29/1928 7 3/10/1928 1928-1929 7 2/20-21/1929 1929-1930 8.5 1/18-19/1930 1930-1931 1931-1932 1932-1933 8 2/11/1933 1933-1934 7 12/26-27/1933 9 2/26-27/1934 1934-1935 6 1/23-24/1935 1935-1936 12 1/19-20/1936 7.5 2/8-9/1936 8.2 2/13-14/1936 1936-1937 10 3/15-16/1937 1937-1938 1938-1939 8 11/25/1938 7 11/27/1938 Missing 1939 1939-1940 Missing 1940-1941 Missing 1941-1942 Missing 1942-1943 Missing 1943-1944 Missing 1943 7.2 3/11-12/1944 6 3/19-20/1944 1944-1945 10.4 1/15-16/1945 1945-1946 9.2 12/19-20/1945 8.7 2/19-20/1946 1946-1947 12.3 2/20-21/1947 1947-1948 6.7 1/12-13/1948 8.4 1/24-25/1948 8.6 2/22/1948 1948-1949 8.4 12/19/1948 1949-1950 1950-1951 1951-1952 1952-1953 1953-1954 6.3 11/6-7/1953 7.8 1/11-12/1954 1954-1955 1955-1956 10 3/18-19/1956 1956-1957 7.8 1/31-2/1/1957 1957-1958 15.8 2/15-16/1958 10.2 3/13-14/1958 19.9 3/19-20/1958 1958-1959 8.1 3/11-12/1959 1959-1960 14.2 3/3-4/1960 1960-1961 10.3 12/11-12/1960 16 1/19-20/1961 17.3 2/3-4/1961 1961-1962 8.1 12/23-24/1961 1962-1963 7.4 1/26-27/1963 1963-1964 13.4 1/12-13/1964 13.2 2/18-19/1964 1964-1965 6.3 1/10/1965 1965-1966 9.6 1/22-23/1966 11.5 1/29-30/1966 9.8 2/24-25/1966 1966-1967 7.6 12/13-14/1966 6.5 12/20-21/1966 13.3 12/24-25/1966 13 2/6-7/1967 6.1 3/5-6/1967 1967-1968 1968-1969 6.4 11/12/1968 7.1 3/2/1969 1969-1970 13 12/25-26/1969 10.2 3/29/1970 1970-1971 7.8 1/1/1971 6.5 3/3-4/1971 1971-1972 6.1 11/24-25/1971 8.9 2/18-19/1972 1972-1973 1973-1974 6.2 12/16-17/1973 6 1/9-10/1974 1974-1975 1975-1976 6.6 3/9/1976 1976-1977 1977-1978 11.4 1/19-20/1978 13.4 2/6-7/1978 1978-1979 6.3 2/7-8/1979 12.1 2/19/1979 1979-1980 6.2 3/13-14/1980 1980-1981 6.1 3/5/1981 1981-1982 6.2 12/14-15/1981 11.4 4/6/1982 1982-1983 8.6 1/15-16/1983 25.2 2/11-12/1983 1983-1984 8.1 3/8-9/1984 1984-1985 6.6 2/1-2/1985 1985-1986 1986-1987 6.1 1/1-2/1987 11.1 1/22/1987 6.6 2/22-23/1987 1987-1988 6.9 1/8-9/1988 11.8 1/25-26/1988 8.6 2/11-12/1988 1988-1989 1989-1990 1990-1991 8.8 12/27-28/1990 1991-1992 7.1 3/18-19/1992 1992-1993 17.6 3/13-14/1993 1993-1994 7.4 1/12/1994 12 1/17-18/1994 7.1 1/25-26/1994 9.2 2/8-9/1994 9.8 2/11/1994 8.7 3/2-3/1994 1994-1995 8.4 2/3-4/1995 1995-1996 10.4 12/19-20/1995 25.6 1/7-8/1996 6 1/12-13/1996 6.2 2/2-3/1996 1996-1997 1997-1998 1998-1999 7* 3/14-15/1999* 1999-2000 10* 1/25/2000* 6 1/30-31/2000 2000-2001 7.3 1/20-21/2001 13 2/5/2001 7 2/22/2001 2001-2002 2002-2003 8 12/5/2002 7.2 12/24-25/2002 7.5 2/6-7/2003 20 2/16-17/2003 2003-2004 9 12/5-6/2003 6.6 1/26-27/2004 2004-2005 10.6 1/22-23/2005 10.1 2/28-3/1/2005 2005-2006 9.1 12/9/2005 15.2 2/11-12/2006 2006-2007 7.6 2/13-14/2007 8.5 3/16-17/2007 2007-2008 2008-2009 2009-2010 7.7 2/5-6/2010 17.8 2/9-10/2010 12.4 2/25-26/2010 2010-2011 11.6 1/26-27/2011 2011-2012 6.8 10/29/2011 2012-2013 2013-2014 6.8 12/14-15/2013 7.2 1/2-3/2014 9.3 2/3/2014 19 2/13-14/2014 * = Unofficial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KamuSnow Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Thanks Ray for putting this together. I counted up the storms in the 2 lists (ABE and PHL) first without noticing the different start dates, and had 123 for ABE and 117 for PHL. I thought "that's surprisingly close...". Then I saw that PHL's list started in 1884-85 and ABE's in 1922-23 (duh). So there were 41 in PHL from 1884-85 to 1921-22 which leaves 76 in PHL from 1922-23 compared to ABE's 123. I might not have thought the difference was that great. (My math could be off, in counting them off the screen). I checked the current annual snowfall for both areas (based on 1980 to 2010), and PHL is 22.7, ABE is 33.9 So PHL has 67% of ABE's annual snowfall, and 61.8% of ABE's 6" or greater snowfalls. There's obviously more parsing that could be done with the data, I didn't compare year by year, or groups of years, but both areas have greater numbers of larger snowfalls grouped around the same years which could be expected... It confirms what we already "knew" about getting more snow up north, but it's interesting to see it this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windvane Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 What a comparison between phl and abe. Thanks for the info. What is striking is that when it does snow in philly over 6 ", it snows heavy. It appears Abe gets a lot of 6" snows but when Philly gets a snow over 6", its a whopper of a storm. Norluns and or banding info for each storm event would be nice to further make comparisons for each storm event. Was this info used to set the winter storm criteria? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famartin Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 Was this info used to set the winter storm criteria? I assembled this independently of Mt. Holly but they could just as easily do it themselves. They may have a list like it on file in fact, I don't know. Tony or one of the other mets there would be the ones to ask. Presumeably some level of knowledge of the differences would go into criteria, but again, I don't know if a specific listing like this was used. Criteria at ABE and PHL has been the same (6" and 4" respectively) for as long as I can remember, but that's not all that long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChescoWx Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I have been travelling this week but will go back and do a like comparison of the data for ABE and Chesco for the period..... Thanks Ray for putting this together. I counted up the storms in the 2 lists (ABE and PHL) first without noticing the different start dates, and had 123 for ABE and 117 for PHL. I thought "that's surprisingly close...". Then I saw that PHL's list started in 1884-85 and ABE's in 1922-23 (duh). So there were 41 in PHL from 1884-85 to 1921-22 which leaves 76 in PHL from 1922-23 compared to ABE's 123. I might not have thought the difference was that great. (My math could be off, in counting them off the screen). I checked the current annual snowfall for both areas (based on 1980 to 2010), and PHL is 22.7, ABE is 33.9 So PHL has 67% of ABE's annual snowfall, and 61.8% of ABE's 6" or greater snowfalls. There's obviously more parsing that could be done with the data, I didn't compare year by year, or groups of years, but both areas have greater numbers of larger snowfalls grouped around the same years which could be expected... It confirms what we already "knew" about getting more snow up north, but it's interesting to see it this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chubbs Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I have been travelling this week but will go back and do a like comparison of the data for ABE and Chesco for the period..... Unlike phl or abe we did manage 4 6+" events in 09/10: 12/18, 2/5+6. 2/9+10 and 2/26. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChescoWx Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 So I went back and summarized and it is almost a dead heat between ABE and the NW Philly burbs of Chester County Here is the breakdown for 6" plus snowstorms from 1922-23 through present ABE - 123 storms of 6" or greater Chester County - 119 storms of 6" or greater PHL - 76 storms of 6" or greater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KamuSnow Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 So I went back and summarized and it is almost a dead heat between ABE and the NW Philly burbs of Chester County Here is the breakdown for 6" plus snowstorms from 1922-23 through present ABE - 123 storms of 6" or greater Chester County - 119 storms of 6" or greater PHL - 76 storms of 6" or greater Yah...pretty close...any chance you could do a list with dates??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDoppler Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I bet the south mountain/reading prong hills just south of Allentown have well over 130 in the same time period. Off the top of my head they are missing at least 6 storms in just the last 20 years. (where we had 6+ and they didn't) I've never really seen them get more than us, perhaps the same or a smidge more in some storms, but none to my recollection that put them at 6" where we didn't have 6". Most storms on there we had a little more. (and COUNTLESS times between 1"-5" were they got either nothing or a coating) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famartin Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 Posted ACY too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windvane Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 What a comparison between phl and abe. Thanks for the info. What is striking is that when it does snow in philly over 6 ", it snows heavy. It appears Abe gets a lot of 6" snows but when Philly gets a snow over 6", its a whopper of a storm. Norluns and or banding info for each storm event would be nice to further make comparisons for each storm event. Was this info used to set the winter storm criteria? After todays event, I am thoroughly convinced that PHI and ABE absolutely need to switch their winter storm storm criteria for accumulations. Another one that has fit the pattern where PHI get 11 and ABE gets 5. It is much harder for ABE to break 6 in- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDoppler Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 After todays event, I am thoroughly convinced that PHI and ABE absolutely need to switch their winter storm storm criteria for accumulations. Another one that has fit the pattern where PHI get 11 and ABE gets 5. It is much harder for ABE to break 6 in- That's only been since about 2006 though. The only constant is CHANGE (historically it is easier for ABE to break 6", let alone the south mountain area!) We've had a lot of cold storms the last decade, just wait until the pattern switches back to coastal huggers and inland runners. (1994 for instance....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famartin Posted April 14, 2014 Author Share Posted April 14, 2014 Added the rest of this winter's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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