TWC going to name winter storms this winter

[free_man]

Thanks.

OK, so what are you suggesting? That people in the Dakotas get severe weather warnings only three days a week, since the "market" doesn't support 24/7 coverage?

I feel like I'm having this discussion with a child. I used to think you were cool and normal-- not I'm just like, WTF? It's like you went off the deep end.

Josh you are being judgmental? You don't know me.

The point to me is, and this is going OT (1) whether everyone should be taxed for wx warnings, information and etc (2) whether the gov't should be doing it to begin with.

Point (2) is taken that govt role is to protect life liberty and property.

I would rather private enterprise do it. And when I say "free markets" or "free market capitalism" I do not mean existing "capitalism", where govt is lobbied for favored legislation directly , and deals directly with big-money for-profit business. the average consumer is screwed because of limited markets and choice, being forced to foot the bill for it, as well as potential start-up businesses and such... just for a few examples.

[Ed Lizard]

What I have been saying all along. There are some things the free market does better than the government ever could, there are some things only the government can do well, and there is a gray area in between.

Things like negotiating treaties with other countries, running a Navy, and issuing official weather warnings in life threatening situations are places where the government not only has Constitutional authority, but just does it better. AccuWx sniped about a missed warning on an EF-1 around here a few months back, but AccuWx doesn't have the staff and resources to issue their own warnings, so they should STFU.

AccuWx and TWC and other private mets can serve customers with forecast products for long range energy useage, agriculture, extended outlooks of enhanced tropical risk for Gulf of Mexico energy ops, but when they come close to issuing official warnings, they confuse the public and endanger safety.

I know TWC will still leave official warnings to NWS, but it creates confusion. NHC issues probability forecasts before naming, and issues advisories and warnings when they do name actual systems. Naming forecast systems will lead to confusion.

And if TWC had suggsted this at a conference, gotten HPC onboard, set up clear guidelines that wouldn't exclude blizzards in the High Plains because too few eyeballs would be attracted to the TV, maybe this would have worked.

BTW

Since everyone above a certain income level is taxed by the Feds, and helps fund the Department of Commerce/NOAA, everyone, not just those in the I-95 megalopolis where TWC looks to score Nielsen ratings is entitled to equal protection.

BTW, not just issuing warnings, in order to provide service to the entire country, the US pays for environmental satellites, a nationwide system of doppler radars and profiles, releases balloon soundings, and runs super computer models. I would not be surprised if NOAA funds university level research, either. TWC, AccuWx and WxBell all piggyback off this. If I can get free GFS/NAM/HRAP data in pretty decent detail from various .gov and ,edu sites, I know NOAA isn't making the private services carry their share of the load.

There is a role for private met companies w/ private companies and broadcast media, but anything that even smacks of being official, and storm naming is that, is a government responsibility.

[Ed Lizard]

Is there anything to stop me, personally, from naming Winter storms? Anyone else on the forum? Starting a Twitter hashtag #Athena for the next storm that will drop 3 inches on the mountains out West?

Stupid, stupid, stupid. I don't care if it is a great marketing move and makes TWC happy with extra eyeballs. Stupid. BTW, NWS is probably protected to a degree by "sovereign immunity". TWC misses a developing storm, doesn't name it until a Nowcast situation, people caught unaware and travelling, has TWC, by assuming authority to name Winter storms, opening themselves up for legal liability?

[isohume]

Is there anything to stop me, personally, from naming Winter storms? Anyone else on the forum? Starting a Twitter hashtag #Athena for the next storm that will drop 3 inches on the mountains out West?

Stupid, stupid, stupid. I don't care if it is a great marketing move and makes TWC happy with extra eyeballs. Stupid. BTW, NWS is probably protected to a degree by "sovereign immunity". TWC misses a developing storm, doesn't name it until a Nowcast situation, people caught unaware and travelling, has TWC, by assuming authority to name Winter storms, opening themselves up for legal liability?

TWC already has blood on their hands as far as I'm concerned and they need to pay up.

[Alpha5]

I dont watch the weather channel....ever, so I dont really care.

[stormitecture]

While based on paying clients, AccuWeather actually does issue its own warnings. Several years ago, AccuWeather bought WeatherData (headed by Mike Smith), and WeatherData is now known as AccuWeather Enterprise Solutions. Paying clients (mostly/all other companies) can get products like tornado warnings and high wind warnings through this part of AccuWeather. It's not the same as issuing nationwide warnings for the public like the NWS, but I'm just saying that it's there. I agree that warnings for the public should be solely in the hands of the NWS.

Hahah...this was part of my response to person regarding "Warnings" and they were arguing and arguing and I mentioned WeatherData and AccuWeather. When their response was "who", I realized it was a pointless argument. People do need to research some. This thread in many ways is the exact reason I love the forum. A great diversity of backgrounds and experiences and knowledge of the topic that can speak with authority.

Thus perfectly illustrating the point here-- that if the weather were privatized, less-populated markets would be under-served in life-threatening weather emergencies, since there just isn't a lot of money in those markets.

Let the rural folks die because warning them isn't profitable. Free markets yay!!

Not to go to political, but this arena is an EXACT and PERFECT example of how government's role is vital to the free market. A free market devoid of government is nothing more than anarchy. Government to me is where the meets and bounds (aka the rules) of business are structured, while leaving the business environment open to many (not necessary any or all) entities to compete. Those meets and bounds in this case have to dictate that the populous as a whole needs to be protected as equally and fairly as possible. It also has a duty to structure accuracy and safety. Why any political (or even non-political) person that speaks toward a dissolving or significant scaling back of NOAA/NWS and associated entities is clearly not well versus in the roles of the various agencies and lacks understanding of what is in the best interest of the citizens. One day we might find a means of having private companies injected into the process of public warnings (private contractors/mets working within the WFOs for one conceptual example), but until a solid alternative is proposed, NOAA/NWS stays exactly as it is!

I remember someone from AccuWeather saying they should be able to issue warnings, but I think that's generally the exception rather than the rule. I think most private companies understand the multiple dilemmas that would be created by privatizing the warning system. Maybe I'm wrong though.

I think in some ways, many do "warn" but they don't violate what I understand the existing law to be that states you cannot use warnings as if you (the company) were the NWS (the law is old and still states the Weather Bureau as the agency) or other government entity and issuing in an official capacity. However, as we all have seen throughout the US, TV/Radio mets will give out their own advisories and even warn the public. No, they don't give "official" warnings, but in the interest of public safety they have and will (and should) be able to warn the public if they see the need. I think I can trust a number of the TV mets throughout the US to give warnings.

Now as for the naming system, this is where and why I don't have a problem with it. Because they are not attempting to act in an official capacity and no legal restrictions exist, they are free to do it. I, like everyone, am concerned of conflicts. However, I'll example why I am not to worried about even the possibility of naming conventions being done by different entities that conflict. It may not be apples to apples, but lets look at some of the Pacific cyclone storms that do receive two names because of naming conventions that overlap (I know it's the WFO vs a secondary entity, but I forgot of the top of my head now). Additionally, the NHC recycles names every six years unless significant enough that (as the text goes) sensitivity issues make it inappropriate to reuse.

And twitter hashtags are of no concern to me because they are already horribly inaccurate. In fact, much to the disgust of some, I was one of the many that started using the hastag #hurricane for Isaac long before it was designated a hurricane. I did so because I understood how things trend and it was in the best interest for me/my business. Twitter has no official capacity. I don't have to obligate myself to follow any convention or rule I want except those laid out by twitter (no violence, criminal, nudity, etc.). A naming of a storm also comes with lots of various has tags that may could easily take up the entire 140 character limit of twitter. Again using Isaac you could use: #isaac, #TSisaac, #HurrIsaac, #hurricane, #tropical, #storm, #TS, #MSwx, #LAwx, and more.

[somethingfunny]

^ Don't forget #Issac

[Boreal]

Great discussion on this subject amongst WX Channel met, and other private and former NWS Mets in a podcast released today (podcast series called "weather brains"). Sorry no link, but search under "weather" on the ios app.

[stormitecture]

^ Don't forget #Issac

hahah....right...cause even I screwed it up a few times. Probably also #mostannoyingtropicalnameever

[BeauDodson]

Thus perfectly illustrating the point here-- that if the weather were privatized, less-populated markets would be under-served in life-threatening weather emergencies, since there just isn't a lot of money in those markets.

Let the rural folks die because warning them isn't profitable. Free markets yay!!

Us rural folk know when to come in out of the weather

[ohleary]

I dont watch the weather channel....ever, so I dont really care.

[Ed Lizard]

Can't confirm, hearing they have already decided to name 'Brutus'.

I did watch lqast night, much self congratulation on the 'unprecedented' step of naming Athena, as if they had made history.

If they have already named Brutus, they'll run the whole list, as the second week of November has just started.

http://www.weather.com/

Yup, "Breaking News", Brutus named. assclowns.

[boulderrr]

Yup, "Breaking News", Brutus named. assclowns.

At this rate, we'll be to Winter Storm Zzzzzzanzibar by next Spring.

[Bob Chill]

Yea, yesterday's snow was early so that's notable. But it really wasn't a high impact event. A geographically small area got some good snow. An area that is used to getting a good snow too.

Outside of the unusual time of year, this storm was far from notable or high impact. If TWC names a clipper or a glaze ice storm I'm going to throw up.

[Bob Chill]

Wow, Brutus was something else. I mean, it snowed in the Sierra, Rockies, and Wasatch. I hope the inter-mountain west was prepared for such an unusual event.

Helena (a city of less than 30k people) did get hit pretty good so that is notable but nameworthy storm notable? When I first heard of the TWC's plans I thought it was silly but I did hope that they would at the very least reserve named storms for only high impact events. But that is clearly not the case. They will run out of names before February and they will end up looking pretty silly if they keep this up.

[Sunny and Warm]

Wow, Brutus was something else. I mean, it snowed in the Sierra, Rockies, and Wasatch. I hope the inter-mountain west was prepared for such an unusual event.

Helena (a city of less than 30k people) did get hit pretty good so that is notable but nameworthy storm notable? When I first heard of the TWC's plans I thought it was silly but I did hope that they would at the very least reserve named storms for only high impact events. But that is clearly not the case. They will run out of names before February and they will end up looking pretty silly if they keep this up.

you mean they don't look and feel silly now? I can physically feel some of the on air forecasters cringe when they have to say the names. This is a sad, marketing driven direction TWC/NBC has taken, and I don't think it lasts beyond this year. I expect the whole thing to wane as the winter wears on. No one takes a winter storm very seriously other than short term effects, so the naming thing IS silly. More people die in an severe cold outbreak than a "named" winter storm. Maybe they should consider naming each arctic front too.

[dryslotted]

it's amazing to me what can happen when an executive goes off his rocker, and not one idiot on staff has the clout or the balls to shake them violently, and say "NO! NO! NO! STUPID!"

[Sunny and Warm]

it's amazing to me what can happen when an executive goes off his rocker, and not one idiot on staff has the clout or the balls to shake them violently, and say "NO! NO! NO! STUPID!"

The reason why they are on staff is that they are meek to begin with. Only YES men need apply.

[Lookout]

Whether it's active or not in the east and plains, if they name winter storms in the west...they will have a list dozens of names long. I agree with Bob, it should be only for high impact events. I mean naming winter storms in the pacific NW (unless it effects places like seattle) and the rockies just seems silly.

[ApacheTrout]

you mean they don't look and feel silly now? I can physically feel some of the on air forecasters cringe when they have to say the names. This is a sad, marketing driven direction TWC/NBC has taken, and I don't think it lasts beyond this year. I expect the whole thing to wane as the winter wears on. No one takes a winter storm very seriously other than short term effects, so the naming thing IS silly. More people die in an severe cold outbreak than a "named" winter storm. Maybe they should consider naming each arctic front too.

I really feel for Dr. Master's credibility when he leads off a post with "Winter Storm 'XXXX' is set to...." It's exactly this kind of marketing nonsense that people feared when he announced the purchase of Weather Underground by the Weather Channel. Before you know it, they'll be naming pollen events, as brought to you by the big bee with the spanish accent.

[ApacheTrout]

Whether it's active or not in the east and plains, if they name winter storms in the west...they will have a list dozens of names long. I agree with Bob, it should be only for high impact events. I mean naming winter storms in the pacific NW (unless it effects places like seattle) and the rockies just seems silly.

About as sensible as naming 5.0 earthquakes in California. Egad, I quiver at the thought of NBC News's breaking headline "Earthquake Tremulous shook loose a few cans off the top shelf of Trader Joe's in Palmdale today. Scientists note that "Tremulous" may have been triggered by immense snow pack delivered to the San Gabriel Mountains by Winter Storm "Daisy" last week.

I suspect they don't make it through half their names before they give up. The mockery is going to get loud, especially if a good train of moisture rich systems sets up over the eastern Pacific.

[Sunny and Warm]

Let me know when they issue the name Kraken. I'd love to see them advertise that the Arctic front has released the Kraken upon the East Coast. Sandy would have been the perfect Kraken storm.

[BeauDodson]

I have not read this entire thread. The WeatherBrains ran a show, a few weeks ago, on this subject. It was quite interesting.

[NCsandhills]

Actually, Gandalf is from The Lord of the Rings, not Harry Potter. Gandolf is nothing but a TWC misspelling. Somewhere, J.R.R. Tolkien is rolling in his grave.

Not to mention Iago is a character from Shakespeare's Othello. Way before Disney's time. lol

[Riptide]

I admit, Athena was a poor name for a winter storm....this whole latin-esque naming system is not realistic imo.

[greg ralls]

So I guess today's event wasn't serious enough to be oroclaimed Winter Storm Caesar, huh?

[ApacheTrout]

Any thoughts on why the big storms in CA aren't worthy of names? Is it because of the lack of snow?

[phlwx]

Any thoughts on why the big storms in CA aren't worthy of names? Is it because of the lack of snow?

it's not hitting enough people bad enough. feet of rain in a relatively sparsely populated area and feet of snow on the tippy tops of the Sierra isn't name worthy.

[Sunny and Warm]

it's not hitting enough people bad enough. feet of rain in a relatively sparsely populated area and feet of snow on the tippy tops of the Sierra isn't name worthy.

maybe. If so, then why does the NHC name some weak non-entity in the north Atlantic when the TWC doesn't name a mountain storm? I mean the TWC is in the forefront of the weather in the USA, and if isn't name-worthy to them, then the NHC should follow suit and stop naming TC's that are non-threats or storms that don't hit people.

... or maybe they've given up this farce after only a month. I sensed embarrassment from the Mets on there even having to say the names. I think Stephanie Abrams was the only one who was enthusiastic about saying the name. Company woman??

/sarc

[isohume]

maybe. If so, then why does the NHC name some weak non-entity in the north Atlantic when the TWC doesn't name a mountain storm? I mean the TWC is in the forefront of the weather in the USA, and if isn't name-worthy to them, then the NHC should follow suit and stop naming TC's that are non-threats or storms that don't hit people.