Avdave Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 lol @ the over reaction why don't you and the other naysayers be patience and give TWC a chance to release guidelines. If they never do, and all this other crap that you say is going to happen, actually happens, then by all means rip them to shreds. A smart company would have released the guidelines along with the name chart. As usual TWC messed on this dumb name thing. \ It is like Toyota releasing a new type of car and saying it is the Toyota Aquarius but not releasing any of the details of the car. Piss poor management by TWC in this case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Lizard Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 There are certain things the private sector does best, there are certain things that only the government can do effectively. TWC running a cable channel and providing forecasts to other media outlets is one thing. Naming a storm is getting awfully close to issuing advisories. NHC has clear rules on what constitutes a tropical storm, and while there are gray areas about what constitutes, for example, 'sufficient convection" to upgrade a low to a tropical cyclone, the rules are well understood. Naming systems is one of those big ticket items the government does better. Like running a Navy. And what is to stop AccuWx and WeatherBell from naming Winter storms or significant severe outbreaks and really confuse the heck out of everybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mappy Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Because http://www.americanw...05#entry1769874 ...that's why. I'm not interested in TWC's guidelines. I already know what their real "guideline" i$. A smart company would have released the guidelines along with the name chart. As usual TWC messed on this dumb name thing. \ It is like Toyota releasing a new type of car and saying it is the Toyota Aquarius but not releasing any of the details of the car. Piss poor management by TWC in this case Ok, well I'm gonna give them a chance. If they end up screwing this whole thing up, and its all about the $$ and blah blah blah then Ill admit they screwed up, in the mean time... I'll wait and see what happens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isohume Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 lol...this thread is getn personal! Kinda like PR, folks drawing lines in the sand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Lizard Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Now, naming a McFarland type cross polar flow with a 1060 mb high crossing the border and heading for Texas after different types of tropical plants us folks in the temperate regions are brave enough to plant, that might be an idea. Arctic Outbreak Satsuma. Arctic Outbreak Canary Island Pygmy Date Palm... Kills me that neighbors with unsheltered Manila palms didn't lose theirs, while my supposedly cold tolerant pygmy date palm died in 2009... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaWx Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 If winter storms are going to be named, then what about massive rainstorms that cause flooding or spring lows that produce severe weather? Or what about major heatwaves and cold waves? Should they also be named? If these other types of wx events aren't named, would that imply to the public that they aren't as dangerous as the named winter storms? Don't they kill more people than the winter storms? Why should major winter storms be the only nontropical weather events named? For this reason amongst others, I'd rather they not name major winter storms (another problem as mentioned by others: one city's major is minor in another city; determining the criteria is tricky and almost arbitrary). Also, are they going to retire these names when there is a really bad storm? How is that determined? TC's have much longer lifetimes on average than winter storms. So names make more sense. Also, more than one TC can exist at a time. So naming cuts down on confusion. Edit: What about naming nor'easters that don't have any wintry precip.? If major winter storms are going to be named, what about these for their strong gradient winds and the high tides/rough seas they cause? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mappy Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 lol...this thread is getn personal! Kinda like PR, folks drawing lines in the sand. If I offended anyone, then my apologies. My intent was not to make it personal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozart Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 If they end up screwing this whole thing up, and its all about the $$ and blah blah blah then Ill admit they screwed up I'm afraid that won't quite cut it. You'll have to admit you screwed up not calling it out; and you'll have to promise never to repeat the mistake in future. This is a matter of public policy and civics, within a community and a special area of interest you are supposed to know at least a thing or two about. Meanwhile, I hope someone who matters at TWC is reading this thread, and I suspect they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isohume Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 If I offended anyone, then my apologies. My intent was not to make it personal. No biggie. I just felt some tension is all. Typical board debate stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Lizard Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 What Bozart said. In 106. Naming storms is too close to issuing official sounding advisories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 If winter storms are going to be named, then what about massive rainstorms that cause flooding or spring lows that produce severe weather? Or what about major heatwaves and cold waves? Should they also be named? If these other types of wx events aren't named, would that imply to the public that they aren't as dangerous as the named winter storms? Don't they kill more people than the winter storms? Why should major winter storms be the only nontropical weather events named? For this reason amongst others, I'd rather they not name major winter storms (another problem as mentioned by others: one city's major is minor in another city; determining the criteria is tricky and almost arbitrary). Also, are they going to retire these names when there is a really bad storm? How is that determined? TC's have much longer lifetimes on average than winter storms. So names make more sense. Also, more than one TC can exist at a time. So naming cuts down on confusion. Hurricanes are near the bottom of the list for deaths in the U.S. over time. Of course that's not quite the same in lesser developed countries. But it's a valid point as heat is the #1 killer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Lizard Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Hurricanes are near the bottom of the list for deaths in the U.S. over time. Of course that's not quite the same in lesser developed countries. But it's a valid point as heat is the #1 killer. How much areal extent for a heat warning? And I've noticed Northern NWS offices have laxer standards for heat advisories than Southern NWS stations. I suspect our NWS office has less stringent standards for wind chill advisories and Winter Storm watches/warnings. I don't see enough WSW to actually know what the local standards are, but I bet our WSWs have lower standards than LOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mappy Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 I'm afraid that won't quite cut it. You'll have to admit you screwed up not calling it out; and you'll have to promise never to repeat the mistake in future. This is a matter of public policy and civics, within a community and a special area of interest you are supposed to know at least a thing or two about. Meanwhile, I hope someone who matters at TWC is reading this thread, and I suspect they are. Oh come on Boz - because I am not being quick to judge this as a mistake, I am wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacoman25 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 If winter storms are going to be named, then what about massive rainstorms that cause flooding or spring lows that produce severe weather? Or what about major heatwaves and cold waves? Should they also be named? If these other types of wx events aren't named, would that imply to the public that they aren't as dangerous as the named winter storms? Don't they kill more people than the winter storms? Why should major winter storms be the only nontropical weather events named? For this reason amongst others, I'd rather they not name major winter storms (another problem as mentioned by others: one city's major is minor in another city; determining the criteria is tricky and almost arbitrary). Also, are they going to retire these names when there is a really bad storm? How is that determined? TC's have much longer lifetimes on average than winter storms. So names make more sense. Also, more than one TC can exist at a time. So naming cuts down on confusion. It's a media thing, and I have no problem with that. Like I said, media outlets already give big winter storms nick-names anyway, and they get the most hype because the general public cares about big snowstorms - a lot more than big rainstorms or even heatwaves usually. I think people are getting in a tizzy because they are directly comparing this to official naming of tropical systems, which are indeed a different animal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozart Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Oh come on Boz - because I am not being quick to judge this as a mistake, I am wrong? Yes, my dear, I'm afraid so. The many reasons why probably go beyond the scope of this thread, so having said my bit, I'll drop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mappy Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Yes, my dear, I'm afraid so. The many reasons why probably go beyond the scope of this thread, so having said my bit, I'll drop it. I see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainshadow Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Next up is naming tornado and severe T-storms. Take cover, tornado tony's looking pretty mean! I promise to be the least destructive tornado on record, maybe just toss around a couple of caterpillar infested corn plants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famartin Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 How much areal extent for a heat warning? And I've noticed Northern NWS offices have laxer standards for heat advisories than Southern NWS stations. I suspect our NWS office has less stringent standards for wind chill advisories and Winter Storm watches/warnings. I don't see enough WSW to actually know what the local standards are, but I bet our WSWs have lower standards than LOT. Most certainly this is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famartin Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 It's a media thing, and I have no problem with that. Like I said, media outlets already give big winter storms nick-names anyway, and they get the most hype because the general public cares about big snowstorms - a lot more than big rainstorms or even heatwaves usually. I think people are getting in a tizzy because they are directly comparing this to official naming of tropical systems, which are indeed a different animal. I suspect that due to the fact other organizations, and the government, are highly unlikely to follow TWC's lead on this may actually hurt them in the end. People will wonder "why is TWC naming silly winter storms and no one else is?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 I suspect that due to the fact other organizations, and the government, are highly unlikely to follow TWC's lead on this may actually hurt them in the end. People will wonder "why is TWC naming silly winter storms and no one else is?" They have a huge market share though, particularly if all local NBC stations follow suit. I'm waiting for name wars.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phlwx Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share Posted October 2, 2012 It's a media thing, and I have no problem with that. Like I said, media outlets already give big winter storms nick-names anyway, and they get the most hype because the general public cares about big snowstorms - a lot more than big rainstorms or even heatwaves usually. I think people are getting in a tizzy because they are directly comparing this to official naming of tropical systems, which are indeed a different animal. yep. pretty much. I think TWC needs to publish what their guidelines are going to be (what's the scientific behind this) and what type of index are you going to use. Is it a NESIS-lite or NESIS-based criteria? That's fine if it is -- just state what the guidelines are now...otherwise, TWC is going to be held to a lot of second guessing by weenies over why a 4" clipper isn't getting named but 33 and rain along I-95 is. Personally, I do think the naming idea is ratings-driven on TWC's end and any "naming" of storms should really be done only with scientific criteria attached to it. The fact TWC didn't release that today with their press release isn't exactly helping them make their case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famartin Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 yep. pretty much. I think TWC needs to publish what their guidelines are going to be (what's the scientific behind this) and what type of index are you going to use. Is it a NESIS-lite or NESIS-based criteria? That's fine if it is -- just state what the guidelines are now...otherwise, TWC is going to be held to a lot of second guessing by weenies over why a 4" clipper isn't getting named but 33 and rain along I-95 is. Personally, I do think the naming idea is ratings-driven on TWC's end and any "naming" of storms should really be done only with scientific criteria attached to it. The fact TWC didn't release that today with their press release isn't exactly them make their case. I don't think private companies publish proprietary research. At least, not til its patented and copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Lizard Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 I see. There is a public safety element if what sounds like official advisories (and upgrading a potential Nor'Easter 3 days away based on what, the GFS, or do the globals have to be in reasonable agreement, or what?) to an "officially" named Winter Storm blurs a line with what NHC does, and could lead to confusion between official products and TWC (and maybe WxBell and AccuWx and whoever) forecasts. Private sector met companies producing specialized products for different customers is fine, but we've already had discussions on prior threads when AccuWx products came too close to sounding like official NOAA/NWS products and could be confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 I don't think private companies publish proprietary research. At least, not til its patented and copyrighted. Considering how many research oriented mets seem to laugh at the idea I think they are just making stuff up. They'd be better off just saying that probably... "We think this will work... we're going to give it a try." Instead they have their winter weather expert, Jeff Masters and others peddling what might be half or less than half truths about the utility of the "system." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Lizard Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 yep. pretty much. I think TWC needs to publish what their guidelines are going to be (what's the scientific behind this) and what type of index are you going to use. Is it a NESIS-lite or NESIS-based criteria? That's fine if it is -- just state what the guidelines are now...otherwise, TWC is going to be held to a lot of second guessing by weenies over why a 4" clipper isn't getting named but 33 and rain along I-95 is. Personally, I do think the naming idea is ratings-driven on TWC's end and any "naming" of storms should really be done only with scientific criteria attached to it. The fact TWC didn't release that today with their press release isn't exactly them make their case. I think the basis will be less "scientific" than commercial, or what drives viewership. Not a coincidence their Atlanta base was named, in a way, and the I-95 DCA to BOS Megalopolis systems will probably be overrepresented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mappy Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 There is a public safety element if what sounds like official advisories (and upgrading a potential Nor'Easter 3 days away based on what, the GFS, or do the globals have to be in reasonable agreement, or what?) to an "officially" named Winter Storm blurs a line with what NHC does, and could lead to confusion between official products and TWC (and maybe WxBell and AccuWx and whoever) forecasts. Private sector met companies producing specialized products for different customers is fine, but we've already had discussions on prior threads when AccuWx products came too close to sounding like official NOAA/NWS products and could be confusing. I must have missed the article/link that stated TWC will be naming systems three days before its forecasted to impact an area, as well as where they said they will be issuing separate statements/watches/warnings from NWS where they would include said named winter storm. Can you share that with me? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormitecture Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Bottomline, they are a private company. If they want to name a system, they can name a system. If people want to follow, they'll follow. There is one aspect that not sure 146 replies has mentioned: it is an SEO win. That alone is why I favor it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Their arguments are maddeningly poor so far. Do you remember the North American blizzard of February 4, 2010? No? Well, do you remember Snowmageddon, the massive February 2010 Nor'easter that dumped up to 38" of snow in the mid-Atlantic, and killed 41 people? The two storms are the same, but having a simple name for the snowstorm like "Snowmageddon" helps us identify and remember the impacts of the storm. http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/comment.html?entrynum=2247 I am willing to bet that as many or more people refer to the storm as the Feb 2010 blizzard (1 or 2) then Snowmageddon. Not to mention the storm didn't happen on the 4th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mappy Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Their arguments are maddeningly poor so far. Do you remember the North American blizzard of February 4, 2010? No? Well, do you remember Snowmageddon, the massive February 2010 Nor'easter that dumped up to 38" of snow in the mid-Atlantic, and killed 41 people? The two storms are the same, but having a simple name for the snowstorm like "Snowmageddon" helps us identify and remember the impacts of the storm. http://www.wundergro...l?entrynum=2247 I am willing to bet that as many or more people refer to the storm as the Feb 2010 blizzard (1 or 2) then Snowmageddon. Not to mention the storm didn't happen on the 4th. this is kind of funny coming from the guy who co-authored a book titled: Snowmageddon: Washington's Record-breaking winter of 2009-10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 this is kind of funny coming from the guy who co-authored a book titled: Snowmageddon: Washington's Record-breaking winter of 2009-10 quiet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.