Meteorology as a Major

[Disc]

After 13 years of school, I have finally graduated high school. Ever since I can remember I've been fascinated with weather and have always thought about having a career that deals with the weather. Now is that time to begin college to work towards the goal of majoring in meteorology. I decided to post this here because more red taggers may see this, but anyone can throw their two cents in if they'd like. I plan on going to a local community college to complete a majority of the "crap" classes that are required before I transfer into the new meteorology program at Virginia Tech. What I'd like to know is advice on which classes (math or science) that might be very helpful or any class or extra courses you personally took that helped out along the way. I'd have to do some research on any suggested classes to see if they are offered, though. I do have an idea of what I need already as many classes are required courses, but any other advice from people or mets that have already been through this could be a big help!

[PSUBlizzicane2007]

Math: Calc I, Calc II, Calc III, and Differential Equations

Science: General Chem I w/Lab

Physics: Physics I/Mechanics/Calculus-based, Physics II/Electricity & Magnetism/Calculus-based, plus the Physics I/II Labs

Computer Science: Beginning C++

I'd start there

[weatherMA]

Congrats dude! I just graduated high school as well (last Thursday).

Good Luck.

[hm8]

Math: Calc I, Calc II, Calc III, and Differential Equations

Science: General Chem I w/Lab

Physics: Physics I/Mechanics/Calculus-based, Physics II/Electricity & Magnetism/Calculus-based, plus the Physics I/II Labs

Computer Science: Beginning C++

I'd start there

Might wanna throw a stats class in there as well.

[WxMidwest]

Stats for Sure, even Fortran though it's old, it's still used by many models/researchers...

I specialize in Fortran myself...

[meteorologist]

This may be of help:

http://www.weatherknowledge.com/become.html

[phil882]

The biggest two class groups you should focus on are Math and Physics based classes, calculus based and beyond. That should prepare you somewhat on the expected courseload you can expect upon transferring to VT. If you are planning on going to graduate school thereafter, it is becoming increasingly important in our field to have a competent background in computer science (Unix, FORTRAN, Python, C, Cshell to name a few languages and operating environments). It's not going to be easy, but it will be well worth it if you can master the core basics before tackleing the math/physics/compsci workload in your ATMS classes.

[am19psu]

If you are planning on going to graduate school thereafter, it is becoming increasingly important in our field to have a competent background in computer science (Unix, FORTRAN, Python, C, Cshell to name a few languages and operating environments). It's not going to be easy, but it will be well worth it if you can master the core basics before tackleing the math/physics/compsci workload in your ATMS classes.

I'd argue it's increasingly important even if you graduate with a BS. It's one area I definitely regret not focusing on more when I was in undergrad, as it required a large spin up time in grad school and limits your qualifications in the private sector.

One thing I would add to the advice you're getting is to do something that sets you apart and makes you marketable. New meteorologists that specialize in forecasting are a dime a dozen and get paid poorly for the first 5 years or so out of school (see: Accuweather). Get good at something else, whether it is programming, statistics, econ, etc.

[CoastalWx]

I'd argue it's increasingly important even if you graduate with a BS. It's one area I definitely regret not focusing on more when I was in undergrad, as it required a large spin up time in grad school and limits your qualifications in the private sector.

One thing I would add to the advice you're getting is to do something that sets you apart and makes you marketable. New meteorologists that specialize in forecasting are a dime a dozen and get paid poorly for the first 5 years or so out of school (see: Accuweather). Get good at something else, whether it is programming, statistics, econ, etc.

Good post. I'm with you on the first paragraph, and thinking of going to grad school for an MBA.

[catoctin wx]

I'll reiterate what many have already said.  Concentrate on the calculus (I, II, III if available) and calc-based physics courses.  Those will be be the basis of your core classes in meteorology  (dynamics, thermodynics, cloud processes, etc).  It would also be an advantage to take some high level statistics courses.  If you can swing a intro to computer programming in either FORTRAN, IDL, or C, you will be helping yourself out a lot.  I would also suggest trying to get your chemistry classes out of the way before going to VT.

If you think you might be interested, consider taking some other science classes that may be an option for a minor.  Something along the lines of hydrology, chemistry, oceanography, etc. Having a minor in a tangential field will set you apart when graduation comes around and you need to compete for jobs.

Hope this helps.  Congratulations on graduating and best of luck!

[am19psu]

Get good at something else, whether it is programming, statistics, econ, etc.

Oh, the biggie I left out here was GIS. GIS is going to only become more important both in the public and private sectors.

[blizznd]

As a met in the NWS for 20+ yrs....from what I have seen of new folks coming in...

definitely want to hit the core classes of calc and physics....these are the basis of most met courses. Hydrology is quite important as well and take as many computer language classes as you can. A lof of folks like myself in the field offices, need folks who are knowledgeable in html, fortran, C++, etc programming to assist in projects and local modelling. Oh, yes GIS and anything intergrating lat/lon and location files into a database is useful

On a side note, still quite competitive to get into the NWS. Recently hired intern here was told by MIC that over 100 applied for Grand Forks ND, over 300 for a spot in La Crosse WI. Of course there are many many private sector ways your skills can be applied as well.

[SeanVA]

I can definitely help you out since I am currently a meteorology major at Virginia Tech. For math, you need Calc I and II, differential equations, and linear algebra. Before you take differential equations and linear algebra at your community college, make sure to check out Virginia Tech's page on transfer credits because sometimes these classes will transfer as a different math credit. For science you will should take Physics I (particle motion) and Physics II (electricity and magnetism). The other classes that people are describing are most likely not going to transfer (but check anyways!), or in the case of the GIS classes, not going to be offered so use that time to get English out of the way. If you have any other questions about the program let me know!

[bobbutts]

Don't forget to make connections with people. It's going to be harder than if you went to VT for 4yrs with the transfer.

Many people mentioned programming courses, absolutely agree, and not just for the direct skill, but for the way that thinking in algorithms like a programmer can be mind opening. Choosing some particular language is less important than fundamentals of programming at the beginning.

[ohleary]

From reading the post by SeanVA, I'd make sure anything you take transfers correctly first of all. Secondly, minor in mathematics or computer science once you get to VT. Third, get an internship. Fourth, get all A's. Good luck!

[blizznd]

I see many college students from the University of North Dakota meteorology program at our office as volunteers and as SCEPs (now that program is no longer in place). I tell them what I tell you....the field of meteorology is quite competitive regardless of if you want to be in research, forecasting, broadcasting, or whatever. Take advantage of any internships, volunteer programs, etc to make yourself stand out in the crowd. Use the college years to make yourself marketable....

Dan

[isohume]

Take advantage of any internships, volunteer programs, etc to make yourself stand out in the crowd. Use the college years to make yourself marketable....

Dan

Definitely that. ^

Employers, esp the NWS as far as I know, are going to expect you to do well in all your met and supporting classes. That's a given. What they want to see is how much you have added to the basics on your own initiative.

[Disc]

Thanks for all of the replies! It is very helpful to read each person's advice and especially from those already in the field. I'll have to dig deeper into some things that were mentioned here as they seem they would benefit me.

[BillB]

As a met in the NWS for 20+ yrs....from what I have seen of new folks coming in...

I read that from Dan, and I begin to feel old.........

After 13 years of school, I have finally graduated high school. Ever since I can remember I've been fascinated with weather and have always thought about having a career that deals with the weather. Now is that time to begin college to work towards the goal of majoring in meteorology. I decided to post this here because more red taggers may see this, but anyone can throw their two cents in if they'd like. I do have an idea of what I need already as many classes are required courses, but any other advice from people or mets that have already been through this could be a big help!

First of all, the previous posters have given you a good start.

Second, you need to drive for your dream. If you don't, you'll always regret it later.

Third, you need to recognize that a lot of other people have had the same dream for the last 15+ years. They were inspired by unusual storms in their area (Andrew, the 1993 Superstorm, Moore OK, Katrina...) or by Weather Media such as the Weather Channel, or by both. They jumped into college just as the massive NWS hiring binge of 1985-1995 and its echo were fading away. They hit the job market in the 00's and created the now-familiar problem of 100 or more qualified applicants for each NWS position. Fine, there is always the private sector. But there is only so much money available in the commercial sector...customers don't have infinite supplies of cash to spend on weather products/services. And the economy hasn't been very helpful the past few years. The result has been a lot of good people unable to find work in Meteorology.

Put it all together. Go for the degree in Meteorology. But also take courses in other areas. These may be areas that allow you to stand apart from others when applying. Or these may be areas that, while not as fascinating as Meteorology (right now), are fields in which you could enjoy working. Don't just get a Meteorology degree; do a double major with some other subject. Or plan on going to grad school and take a different subject there.

When I talk to prospective Meteorologists looking at college, I advise them to have not just Plan A, but Plans B & C as well. It may take an extra year or two and incur more debt. It will also give you more options and may give you higher-flying options than just a plain vanilla B.S. degree. The courses to choose will depend on what subject path(s) you choose to explore.

Good luck!

[kab2791]

Definitely minor is something to help specialize yourself. Like others have said, GIS is becoming more and more important and can be useful in many different types of meteorological jobs. Heck, the NWS has a day devoted to GIS. Also, if you cannot fit in all of those computer science classes into your schedule, you can always learn some things on your own. FORTRAN and Python are really good classes. If you can, learn meteorological programs like GEMPAK and IDV. GEMPAK is used in grad school and having knowledge of a plotting software will help you to learn other meteorological applications. Furthermore, every met student should have at least a basic working knowledge of Linux.

I highly recommend applying for the NOAA Hollings Scholarship. I had the pleasure of being selected this year and I will be receiving a substantial monetary stipend and a paid summer internship at one of many NOAA facilities for next summer. You must be of equivalent sophomore status to apply. If you are a transfer like me, you can still apply as long as you are a sophomore in the MET level.

This year 115 students were selected out of a little over 1000 applicants, so the odds aren't terrible at all.

http://www.oesd.noaa.gov/scholarships/hollings.html

If you cannot get the Hollings, try finding a summer volunteership, after your junior year especially. Some states like MI have cut the volunteer program, but in case that were to happen, you could still apply to out of state offices to better your chances. Also, if you haven't done a Job shadow with your local NWS office, do it! It shows that you're are at least interested and passionate.

I'd recommend joining the AMS and NWA. I have used the AMS quite a bit to find research journals, so a membership can be quite valuable.

Going along with that, seek any kind of undergrad research to build research skills for grad school. It also shows that you are motivated.

Finally, get involved with your local student chapter of the AMS or NWA and attend meteorological conferences later in your undergrad years. Again, this shows that you are a highly motivated student very interested in the field. Though, since you will be in community college for a couple years, that may have to wait until you transfer.

This is no doubt a competitive field (especially the NWS), so do anything and everything possible to build your resume as a undergrad and stand out when applying for grad school or a job.

Good luck, and congrats on graduating.

[blizznd]

I read that from Dan, and I begin to feel old.........

too funny...oh yes the Ann Arbor-Detroit days....

I hear ya though....have interns in our office born after I graduated from college....eek..

[hm8]

I'm glad this thread hasn't turned into a bunch of people just saying "don't go into meteorology no matter what" like some other similar threads have...

[baroclinic_instability]

Best advice I can give is absolutely stand out as a student in every possible way. Excel in your programming classes, and do something unique with those skills. Make weather applications, weather software, etc. Run a local WRF.

Also, the NOAA Hollins scholarship is an absolute must. I know at least 3 of them on these forums alone, and I know a number in the NWS simply because of that scholarship alone. It not only gives you quite a bit of scholarship money, it gives you student internships anywhere from a local WFO, to internships in Hawaii, Alaska, NASA, etc. And yes, as someone else mentioned, meet people....as many people as you can in the met field. This field is incredibly small, and the more connections the better your chances are of getting a job in this incredibly small field. Not trying to be a downer, but you have to face the realistic stats: somewhere close to 60-75% of graduates will not land a job in this field. That is simply a fact. And as others have said, take other classes to broaden your education beyond the meteo classes. Double majoring in GIS/Geography or Comp Sci/programming will make you highly sought after in this field....both private/public as well as energy related met positions. For instance, a good friend and class mate of mine graduated in met, got his M.S. in GIS, and now works in wind energy siting wind farms. Another example is a friend who received his M.S. at Penn State and now works in Wind Energy as a programmer. Don't just focus on the met classes. As someone else said here, decent forecasters with their own forecast blog are a dime-a-dozen. Do something unique, write a great senior project paper, write an awesome met program. When all your other met buddies are out partying and chasing, find internships and study that much harder.

Do the above and you will significantly increase your odds of finding success in this field.

[baroclinic_instability]

Our own Phil882 is a great example of someone who did an awesome undergrad research project. I came across his nice work here earlier when I was looking up the Rossby Radius of Deformation.

http://facstaff.unca.edu/chennon/research/documents/papin_ncur2011_preprint.pdf

[ILMRoss]

Best advice I can give is absolutely stand out as a student in every possible way. Excel in your programming classes, and do something unique with those skills. Make weather applications, weather software, etc. Run a local WRF.

Also, the NOAA Hollins scholarship is an absolute must. I know at least 3 of them on these forums alone, and I know a number in the NWS simply because of that scholarship alone. It not only gives you quite a bit of scholarship money, it gives you student internships anywhere from a local WFO, to internships in Hawaii, Alaska, NASA, etc. And yes, as someone else mentioned, meet people....as many people as you can in the met field. This field is incredibly small, and the more connections the better your chances are of getting a job in this incredibly small field. Not trying to be a downer, but you have to face the realistic stats: somewhere close to 60-75% of graduates will not land a job in this field. That is simply a fact. And as others have said, take other classes to broaden your education beyond the meteo classes. Double majoring in GIS/Geography or Comp Sci/programming will make you highly sought after in this field....both private/public as well as energy related met positions. For instance, a good friend and class mate of mine graduated in met, got his M.S. in GIS, and now works in wind energy siting wind farms. Another example is a friend who received his M.S. at Penn State and now works in Wind Energy as a programmer. Don't just focus on the met classes. As someone else said here, decent forecasters with their own forecast blog are a dime-a-dozen. Do something unique, write a great senior project paper, write an awesome met program. When all your other met buddies are out partying and chasing, find internships and study that much harder.

Do the above and you will significantly increase your odds of finding success in this field.

Thank you so much for this response. I am not the original poster, but I am a rising senior starting to pick out which college to go to and this is extremely helpful. I am bookmarking this.

[mappy]

Oh, the biggie I left out here was GIS. GIS is going to only become more important both in the public and private sectors.

Agreed.

[phil882]

Our own Phil882 is a great example of someone who did an awesome undergrad research project. I came across his nice work here earlier when I was looking up the Rossby Radius of Deformation.

http://facstaff.unca.edu/chennon/research/documents/papin_ncur2011_preprint.pdf

Haha thanks for your kind words, and it reminds me I have some extra work to do to update this project... Stay tuned! But you highlight a great point, undergraduate research always looks great on a resume and it puts you on the top pile for applications for graduate school and other positions after you received your BS. There is a great program that SUNY Albany does in conjunction with the local WFO (Cstar) which both funds students to conduct research at the graduate school level while also working intimately with a contact with the NWS. It's a great program because it gives youths best of both worlds where you are able to pick up experience working with the NWS while conducting research. Don't be afraid to contact your local WFO about this type of opportunity and get a dialogue started at the very least. In many ways what separates the good students vs. the successful students is this initiative to talk to people and making the right contacts along the way when first getting your professional career started. This might still be down the road for you after you get into VTech but it's never to early to start thinking about your career plan within meteorology... In fact it makes choosing the right classes far easier!

[Mr. Windcredible!]

Math: Calc I, Calc II, Calc III, and Differential Equations

Science: General Chem I w/Lab

Physics: Physics I/Mechanics/Calculus-based, Physics II/Electricity & Magnetism/Calculus-based, plus the Physics I/II Labs

Computer Science: Beginning C++

I'd start there

I'd go Fortran before C++. I don't think I've touched a C++ program since I took C++ as an undergrad over a decade ago. I encountered C and Fortran on a regular basis in grad school. But basically, as other have touched upon...any advanced computing is a good idea. Fortran, Perl, Matlab, shell scripts, etc.

[isohume]

I'd go Fortran before C++. I don't think I've touched a C++ program since I took C++ as an undergrad over a decade ago. I encountered C and Fortran on a regular basis in grad school. But basically, as other have touched upon...any advanced computing is a good idea. Fortran, Perl, Matlab, shell scripts, etc.

Fortran would be good for grad school and you're right I've never seen C++ used operationally. I'd learn the Linux scripting languages of python and perl, etc. Also, AWIPS II is coming out this year and it is written in Java. An advanced knowledge of Java would be a huge feather in anyone's cap trying to get into the NWS...especially since it looks like we'll be losing our station ITOs.

[Visiteur]

Along with what the other posters are saying, I'm going to suggest that if you really want to do something in meteorology, go to grad school. Knox (2008) conducted a study that showed only about 1/3 of undergrad meteorology majors go onto grad school in the field, yet 56% of opening met positions over a two-year span wanted a master's degree or PhD. Grad school gives you additional exposure to higher-level languages, advanced coursework, and research opportunities that prove invaluable for one's resume. Notably, most meteorology grad students are funded, so their tuition is covered and they receive a modest stipend to cover their living expenses.

However, don't expect things to be too much easier. I've known master's students who applied to 20+ positions before getting interviews, and almost as high a number for PhDs. This field, to be honest, is overcrowded, which makes employment really competitive. Most of those whose stop at the bachelor's are going to be kicked to the curbside.