janetjanet998 Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 thought it would be a good idea to have it's own thread, for those that have radar shots please post them per live air shots there appears to be a rather long path..wide in places F1-F2 range range until just west of the airport I am seeing the worst damage of mid to high end EF3 a mile or so just west southwest of the airport.. some large houses only a fews walls remain, upper stories gone,,one ot two only had mostly a pile of rubble left tornado then moved into a commercial area...with heavy damage to several buildings Tornado then hit the airport head on large parts of the terminal roof is gone half the windows blown out, planes got moved with people inside..a large piece of sheet metal is embbeded into the tail section of one of the planes..airport will be closed for at least 2 days Tornado then continued east likely F1-F2 damage into Fergenson Tornado then likley crosed the river into granite city...have not seen air shots yet from there appears hundreds of homes affected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 I know from what I saw to pick that bus up and put it where it did, I'd have to imagine that it took at least 135-160 mph to do that which we are talking at least a low ef-3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janetjanet998 Posted April 23, 2011 Author Share Posted April 23, 2011 update: granite city IL not as bad as further west roofs gone..more scattered dammage then further west but still dozens of more homes affected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k*** Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 I know from what I saw to pick that bus up and put it where it did, I'd have to imagine that it took at least 135-160 mph to do that which we are talking at least a low ef-3. what are you assuming happened to the bus? it looks like it only had to be picked up a couple feet to get onto that perch....impressive but I don't know if that means EF3...especially since the stuff around it doesn't look to be damaged by EF3 winds. those buses are pretty light compared to their surface area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 what are you assuming happened to the bus? it looks like it only had to be picked up a couple feet to get onto that perch....impressive but I don't know if that means EF3...especially since the stuff around it doesn't look to be damaged by EF3 winds. those buses are pretty light compared to their surface area. Yeah good point, I relooked at the picture, at first I thought it was picked up from ground and put up there, but I am wrong it was up there and picked up and pushed. Probably something closer to say 90-110mph range, because even though they are light, they are much heavier than a car. However some of the other pictures on St. Louis' web page would certainly be in the EF-3 range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janetjanet998 Posted April 23, 2011 Author Share Posted April 23, 2011 update granite city many homes have F1 to maybe F2 damage,,many dozens if not hundreds of homes damaged there too if it was the same tornado it was on the ground for 15+ miles over a solid urban area many many hundreds of homes damaged Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALhurricane Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 It's crazy to me that even though the NWS had the warning out well in advance, the airport did not act in a timely manner to get people to safety. When a plane is being moved by the wind it is too late to start moving people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janetjanet998 Posted April 23, 2011 Author Share Posted April 23, 2011 It's crazy to me that even though the NWS had the warning out well in advance, the airport did not act in a timely manner to get people to safety. When a plane is being moved by the wind it is too late to start moving people. I was thinking if there would be any changes due to this... but I don't think you can take people off the planes every time there is a run of the mill type tornado warning for the airport general area... perhaps only when there is a confirmed one heading for the airport??? which there was in this case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Lizard Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Mike Seidel on TWC says Lambert will release surveillance camera videos this afternoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornadotony Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Some of that damage, depending on construction quality, is going to come very close to EF4 status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornadotony Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 http://www.fox2now.com/news/ktvi-devastation-across-metro-st-louis-in-wake-of-tornado-20110423,0,2472855.story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k*** Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 http://www.fox2now.c...0,2472855.story wow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornadotony Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 wow The real wow is that there were only minor injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaPilot Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 I knew these storms were strong and had possible Tornadic signatures. I was IN THE COCKPIT at gate A4 when this happened. We felt the gusts and saw the rapid pressure drop on the altimeter. Plane moved around a bit, but no more than other times ive been in gusty winds on the ground. Our concourse is about 400 feet away from concourse C which sustained significant damage. What is bothering me is the fact that neither I nor the airline agents knew there was a Tornado warning for the area. Im pretty sure this storm was warned and im going to investigate why as Captain I did not know and how we might possibly have had better information in this event AND better warning in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Lizard Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 I knew these storms were strong and had possible Tornadic signatures. I was IN THE COCKPIT at gate A4 when this happened. We felt the gusts and saw the rapid pressure drop on the altimeter. Plane moved around a bit, but no more than other times ive been in gusty winds on the ground. Our concourse is about 400 feet away from concourse C which sustained significant damage. What is bothering me is the fact that neither I nor the airline agents knew there was a Tornado warning for the area. Im pretty sure this storm was warned and im going to investigate why as Captain I did not know and how we might possibly have had better information in this event AND better warning in the future. When my now deceased Dad worked flight dispatch for American, they had a staff of mets, and my Dad always made it clear he thought the AA mets were superior. My Dad worked with the famous Texas TV met Harold Taft at DAL. "Talk Yankee for us, Charlie", Taft would say that to my Dad. I suppose with leaner budgets the airlines don't have as many mets on staff anymore and are more reliant on NWS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackjack123 Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Some of that damage, depending on construction quality, is going to come very close to EF4 status. I would hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago Storm Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE ST LOUIS MO 1145 AM CDT SAT APR 23 2011 ...INITIAL DAMAGE SURVEY INDICATES AT LEAST EF3 DAMAGE IN NORTH ST LOUIS COUNTY... A NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE DAMAGE SURVEY TEAM HAS FOUND AT LEAST EF3 DAMAGE IN THE BRIDGETON AREA IN NORTH ST LOUIS COUNTY. EF3 DAMAGE INDICATES WINDS OF OVER 135 MPH. PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS IS JUST ONE REPORT FROM ONE OF THE 4 TEAMS THAT ARE SURVEYING THE DAMAGE...SO THIS RATING MAY CHANGE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackjack123 Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 http://www.fox2now.c...0,2472855.story That is at least EF3 damage. At least. It could even be low-end EF4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaoPos Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 I knew these storms were strong and had possible Tornadic signatures. I was IN THE COCKPIT at gate A4 when this happened. We felt the gusts and saw the rapid pressure drop on the altimeter. Plane moved around a bit, but no more than other times ive been in gusty winds on the ground. Our concourse is about 400 feet away from concourse C which sustained significant damage. What is bothering me is the fact that neither I nor the airline agents knew there was a Tornado warning for the area. Im pretty sure this storm was warned and im going to investigate why as Captain I did not know and how we might possibly have had better information in this event AND better warning in the future. Air traffic controller asleep again? :-) On a serious note, wondering why that critical info was not relayed to you. Is it past practice to have all warnings affecting the aircraft/airport relayed to you over radio? If so, someone dropped the ball. If not, Thad just downright neglect. Glad to see your doing well after that ordeal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amped Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 It's crazy to me that even though the NWS had the warning out well in advance, the airport did not act in a timely manner to get people to safety. When a plane is being moved by the wind it is too late to start moving people. Yes and if you count to 50 after that the danger has passed. You can stop the evacuation. People may gfet trampled, or worse yet a nailclipper may get passed airport security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackjack123 Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 The real wow is that there were only minor injuries. That is very good news considering it was a strong/violent tornado. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornadotony Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 831 NOUS43 KLSX 232008 PNSLSX ILZ058>060-064-065-069-070-074-079-095>102-MOZ018-019-026-027- 034>036-041-042-047>052-059>065-072>075-084-085-099-240000- PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE ST LOUIS MO 305 PM CDT SAT APR 23 2011 ..SURVEY TEAM RATE DAMAGE IN BRIDGETON AS EF4 THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE DAMAGE SURVEY TEAM IN NORTH ST LOUIS COUNTY HAS FOUND EF4 DAMAGE IN THE BRIDGETON AREA...NEAR OLD ST CHARLES ROCK ROAD AND HARMON ESTATES. EF4 DAMAGE INDICATES WINDS OF 166 TO 200 MPH. PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS IS STILL A PRELIMINARY REPORT...SO INFORMATION MAY CHANGE AND BE UPDATED AS SURVEY TEAMS CONTINUE THEIR WORK. SURVEY TEAMS HAVE NOT YET REACH LAMBERT FIELD...SO NO DAMAGE RATING IS AVAILABLE FOR THE AIRPORT AT THIS TIME. TRUETT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janetjanet998 Posted April 23, 2011 Author Share Posted April 23, 2011 St. Louis Airport storm caught on camera [/url] http://origin.ksdk.c...ort-storm-chaos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k*** Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 St. Louis Airport storm caught on camera http://origin.ksdk.c...ort-storm-chaos I love the second half of that video...it proves that TSA agents can do something other than sitting on their asses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Smith Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Hi everyone, please allow me to introduce myself. This my first posting. My name is Mike Smith. I am CEO of WeatherData Services, Inc. of Wichita, which is part of AccuWeather. I'm a board certified consulting meteorologist and a Fellow of the American Meteorological Society. I have written a book, Warnings: The True Story of How Science Tamed the Weather which (written like a mystery novel) tells how weather science has helped eliminate microburst crashes, cut the tornado death rate from tornadoes by 95%, and saved tens of thousands in hurricanes. Why am I telling you this? The book tells of a major gap in the weather warning system: The F.A.A.'s refusal to allow NWS tornado warnings to be furnished to control towers and ATC personnel. There was a near-miss at KDAB on Christmas Day 2006 when a Delta Express flight nearly landed in a tornado. The plane went around and when it landed, the pilots asked, "what happened?!" when they saw all of the damage. The tornado was very well-warned. When DAB put a weather radio in the tower, the FAA made them take it out. This entire story is told in the book. Last night was the real thing and people could have been killed. For reasons I have never understood, the FAA seems to see a difference between "weather warnings" and "aviation weather warnings." Tornado warnings are not part of the latter data stream, thus they are not provided. It would be very easy to solve this problem but the FAA doesn't see it as a priority. I have a blog and I have talked about this: http://meteorologicalmusings.blogspot.com/ I also welcome questions via email ([email protected]). Thank you for allowing me to comment. Happy Easter, everyone! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WxFreak11 Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Hi everyone, please allow me to introduce myself. This my first posting. My name is Mike Smith. I am CEO of WeatherData Services, Inc. of Wichita, which is part of AccuWeather. I'm a board certified consulting meteorologist and a Fellow of the American Meteorological Society. I have written a book, Warnings: The True Story of How Science Tamed the Weather which (written like a mystery novel) tells how weather science has helped eliminate microburst crashes, cut the tornado death rate from tornadoes by 95%, and saved tens of thousands in hurricanes. Why am I telling you this? The book tells of a major gap in the weather warning system: The F.A.A.'s refusal to allow NWS tornado warnings to be furnished to control towers and ATC personnel. There was a near-miss at KDAB on Christmas Day 2006 when a Delta Express flight nearly landed in a tornado. The plane went around and when it landed, the pilots asked, "what happened?!" when they saw all of the damage. The tornado was very well-warned. When DAB put a weather radio in the tower, the FAA made them take it out. This entire story is told in the book. Last night was the real thing and people could have been killed. For reasons I have never understood, the FAA seems to see a difference between "weather warnings" and "aviation weather warnings." Tornado warnings are not part of the latter data stream, thus they are not provided. It would be very easy to solve this problem but the FAA doesn't see it as a priority. I have a blog and I have talked about this: http://meteorologica...s.blogspot.com/ I also welcome questions via email ([email protected]). Thank you for allowing me to comment. Happy Easter, everyone! Mike This is just insane if this is true. This puts the public in harm's way in a huge way. I want to know why the FAA doesn't consider weather warnings could adversely affect aviation? This is just completely assinine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indystorm Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Wow! Who would think that our first EF 4 of the year would involve a direct hit on the St. Louis airport, even if intensity changes there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackjack123 Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 831 NOUS43 KLSX 232008 PNSLSX ILZ058>060-064-065-069-070-074-079-095>102-MOZ018-019-026-027- 034>036-041-042-047>052-059>065-072>075-084-085-099-240000- PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE ST LOUIS MO 305 PM CDT SAT APR 23 2011 ..SURVEY TEAM RATE DAMAGE IN BRIDGETON AS EF4 THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE DAMAGE SURVEY TEAM IN NORTH ST LOUIS COUNTY HAS FOUND EF4 DAMAGE IN THE BRIDGETON AREA...NEAR OLD ST CHARLES ROCK ROAD AND HARMON ESTATES. EF4 DAMAGE INDICATES WINDS OF 166 TO 200 MPH. PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS IS STILL A PRELIMINARY REPORT...SO INFORMATION MAY CHANGE AND BE UPDATED AS SURVEY TEAMS CONTINUE THEIR WORK. SURVEY TEAMS HAVE NOT YET REACH LAMBERT FIELD...SO NO DAMAGE RATING IS AVAILABLE FOR THE AIRPORT AT THIS TIME. TRUETT Ron P. I trust him. He knows how to do surveys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SluggerWx Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 I knew these storms were strong and had possible Tornadic signatures. I was IN THE COCKPIT at gate A4 when this happened. We felt the gusts and saw the rapid pressure drop on the altimeter. Plane moved around a bit, but no more than other times ive been in gusty winds on the ground. Our concourse is about 400 feet away from concourse C which sustained significant damage. What is bothering me is the fact that neither I nor the airline agents knew there was a Tornado warning for the area. Im pretty sure this storm was warned and im going to investigate why as Captain I did not know and how we might possibly have had better information in this event AND better warning in the future. Can we do the 'Amwex' awards each year for fun (like Jan '12 for 2011 awards)? If so, I'm nominating this for post of the year (among many stong competitors to this point). Thanks, DeltaPilot for that compelling recap. I'll continue the discussion down the road for the Amwex Awards if people are interested (thought it was a catchy name, given our URL). Compelling Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janetjanet998 Posted April 23, 2011 Author Share Posted April 23, 2011 PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE ST LOUIS MO 615 PM CDT SAT APR 23 2011 ...SURVEY TEAM RATE DAMAGE AT LAMBERT ST. LOUIS INTL. AIRPORT AS EF2... THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE DAMAGE SURVEY TEAM AT LAMBERT ST. LOUIS INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT HAS FOUND EF2 DAMAGE. NEARLY 80 PERCENT OF THE WINDOWS IN THE EASTERNMOST PART OF THE TERMINAL WERE BLOWN OUT...AND THE ROOF WAS TORN OFF OF TERMINAL C. EF2 DAMAGE INDICATES WINDS OF 111 TO 135 MPH. PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS IS STILL A PRELIMINARY REPORT...SO INFORMATION MAY CHANGE AND BE UPDATED AS SURVEY TEAMS CONTINUE THEIR WORK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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