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The 2013-2014 Ski Season Thread

Skivt2

By Skivt2,
in New England

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powderfreak

powderfreak

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Good little piece from SkiTheEast and Powder Magazine about the this past week's upslope snowstorm.... this stuff flies wayyyy under the radar and its funny the look you get from folks when you try to describe that there's multiple feet of snowfall when there's no actual "storm system" that's making headlines.  The good ol' "mountain snow shower" forecast that results in more snow than most headline grabbing nor'easters.

 

http://www.powdermag.com/stories/fall-white/

 

"It’s 6:45 a.m. on Wednesday, 19 degrees outside, and I’m standing next to my car in a blizzard. The winds are strong and I can barely see the base of the mountain a few hundred feet away. Damn, it’s cold, I think to myself. The lifts at Jay Peak, Vermont hang still. The ski resort isn’t slated to open for another two weeks. My friend Rob Fox, Jay Peak local Ashley Maxfield, and I slap on our skins and a few minutes later we’re trudging through the deep snow, alone in our ascent.

 

Flash back to the day before in Boston—my email inbox and cell phone lit up all day long with rumors of snow piling up in Vermont. I checked the weather for the hundredth time. Same story: temperatures in the teens, wind, mountain snow showers. This wasn’t a Nor’easter, no blockbuster storm. Feet? In early November? My phone rings. A friend-of-a-friend who just finished skiing Stowe says two feet. He heard there’s even more at Jay Peak.

 

Snow started accumulating the weekend prior, with Northern Vermont seeing five to 10 inches a day. No mountain fared better than Jay Peak, an infamous over-achiever during these weather patterns. When the blizzard finally receded on Wednesday morning, the mountain was covered with three feet of fresh.

 

We climbed through heavy snow and biting wind. All signs of autumn were gone. Because the snow came slow and steady over six days, each layer had time to settle. A firm base covered all the brown and green and the storm left two feet of windblown powder in its wake.

 

An hour later, Rob, Ashley, and I reached the entrance to Valhalla, a gladed trail draping the shoulder of Jay Peak’s craggy summit. We crossed the rope and passed a dangling closed sign to reach a chute-like entrance to a trail chock full of untouched snow. I slid down the first few hundred feet conservatively and sank thigh-deep into the snow without hitting bottom.

 

We looked at each other in disbelief. Mid-February is leaner than this. Is it really November? I set up with my camera and took photos of Ashley skiing her first line. With each turn, snow billowed over her shoulder. And so began an all-time November day.

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powderfreak

powderfreak

Posted
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What's up with Stowe not being open? Haven't you guys had like 3 feet?

Yep...same reason why no one is open in northern VT. Ginxy asked this too in the NNE thread. There's just no business this time of year. We opened to pass holders on Saturday but will open for daily operations this Saturday.

Most areas up here are more destination resorts where opening earlier than your published date doesn't really do much. Take Smugglers Notch...usually voted number one in ski magazines and gets same snow as Stowe, but won't open till turkey day or even after Thanksgiving.

The locals up here love hiking for turns too...there were runs on Mansfield with moguls growing on trails due to heavy traffic without the lifts even open. There's no pressure to open early up here...most locals here, Smuggs, Bolton, Jay would probably vote to open a week later so they can have their private playground for a little while longer, haha. I skied 5 days last week and only rode a lift one of those days.

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Clinch Leatherwood

Clinch Leatherwood

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PF I can't quote again..but judging from the lines at SR and from what I head at Wawa and also Loon....I think they may be incorrect on peoples willingness to ski earlier in the year. Most of the people I saw had tags not cards Saturday - ie people paying the daily rate to go vs pass holders.  

 

  I think this is an unusual year too.  For me the trail count at SR had to be up around 20 and include some of the trails I frequent.....

 

I suppose too it's all good marketing to be able to say they had 20 trails open in mid November.  If it stays dry or breaks colds this weekend I'll be back at it.

 

One thing I did note on the Saturday crowd...I saw one person that maybe was at my level or lower...everyone else was pretty far above my level.  Pros.

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Baroclinic Zone

Baroclinic Zone

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How's Killington looking? Getting ready to book a trip for 2nd weekend in December. ANyone have a decent place to recommend to stay?We're leaning to Killington grand resort. Figure its right on the mountain, so why not.

23T 8L currently.  Should be able to build on that in the next couple weeks with the temps and possibility of multiple storms.  Would not be surprised to see 1/2 the mountain open than for you.

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N. OF PIKE

N. OF PIKE

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I dont think the locals (who support the mtn thru buying passes) would vote to hike another week, when they could enjoy lift service on a monday and get 10x the runs in relatively deep snow from a pure monetary stand point it does make plenty of sense thou, and the sheer beauty and snowfall of stowe will lead those locals to never really be piss'd off enuf (wrt not opening to leave) so its a risk free decision by the mtn

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mob1

mob1

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I dont think the locals would vote to hike another week, when they could enjoy lift service on a monday and get 10x the runs in relatively deep snow from a pure monetary stand point it does make plenty of sense thou.

It's a personal preference but out west, where ski touring is extremely popular, you have locals who get really upset when lifts are added to areas that where previously "hike to terrain".
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powderfreak

powderfreak

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I dont think the locals (who support the mtn thru buying passes) would vote to hike another week, when they could enjoy lift service on a monday and get 10x the runs in relatively deep snow from a pure monetary stand point it does make plenty of sense thou, and the sheer beauty and snowfall of stowe will lead those locals to never really be piss'd off enuf (wrt not opening to leave) so its a risk free decision by the mtn

I'm not sure you understand the locals, lol. We have to tell them to stop hiking once the lifts open. It'll probably be in the local paper again this season. There's a big problem with people wearing their season pass while skinning/hiking so they think they are entitled to hike up open terrain. We'll have trains of like ten yoga moms going up the mountain early season even when the lifts run. Last year we finally said you can't hike on open trails because it was so popular.

I just think the funny thing is, look at social media and if you scroll through all of Stowe's stuff, there are no comments from anyone about why the mountain isn't open or cries to open early. None. There are more comments about whether people will be allowed to skin/hike than there are about why the mountain isn't open, lol.

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HoarfrostHubb

HoarfrostHubb

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Do mountains that lease the land (Wachusett, Loon, etc?) have the legal right to restrict who is using/hiking state/federal owned land?

I understand about the lifts, but the rest is public, correct?

 

I am not saying they cannot restrict it, but what provisions allow this?

 

Stupid football game going until 12AM...

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Clinch Leatherwood

Clinch Leatherwood

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I'm not sure you understand the locals, lol. We have to tell them to stop hiking once the lifts open. It'll probably be in the local paper again this season. There's a big problem with people wearing their season pass while skinning/hiking so they think they are entitled to hike up open terrain. We'll have trains of like ten yoga moms going up the mountain early season even when the lifts run. Last year we finally said you can't hike on open trails because it was so popular.

I just think the funny thing is, look at social media and if you scroll through all of Stowe's stuff, there are no comments from anyone about why the mountain isn't open or cries to open early. None. There are more comments about whether people will be allowed to skin/hike than there are about why the mountain isn't open, lol.

do you really think people would complain on SM about the mountain not being open? They're all busy skiing. ;)

I'm just surprised you guys get 400" of snow a year and yet WaWa beat you to opening.

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powderfreak

powderfreak

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do you really think people would complain on SM about the mountain not being open? They're all busy skiing. ;)

I'm just surprised you guys get 400" of snow a year and yet WaWa beat you to opening.

 

Haha nice jab... well WaWa beat places like Alta, Utah, Jackson Hole, Squaw Valley, Steamboat, any number of places out west that average ridiculous amounts of snow.

 

That's like saying, I'm surprised Killington lost to a mole hill in CT for several years for earliest lift opening in the east.  I mean, if they want to do it, they can do it... we had 12 trails and 5 miles open on Saturday.  Its not an issue of not having snow.  Jay Peak was posting videos of people hiking and skiing through 3 feet of powder...but did they turn the lifts, nope.  

 

Think about it this way...there's a limited number of skiers this time of year.  It is not lucrative.  Killington and Sunday River have sort of made a name for themselves for being open early.  Heck, they probably lose money but have decided that is how they want to operate and I'm sure they've got it pretty dialed in on how to possibly even make a small profit.  So say you have 2-4 mountains open and those mountains can eat up the skier demand for this time of year.  If there were 10 mountains open, then that's way too much supply for the demand right now.   

 

All people do on SM is complain these days it seems, lol.  

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Clinch Leatherwood

Clinch Leatherwood

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Haha nice jab... well WaWa beat places like Alta, Utah, Jackson Hole, Squaw Valley, Steamboat, any number of places out west that average 500" or more.

 

That's like saying, I'm surprised Killington lost to a mole hill in CT for several years for earliest lift opening in the east.  I mean, if they want to do it, they can do it... we had 12 trails and 5 miles open on Saturday.  Its not an issue of not having snow.  Jay Peak was posting videos of people hiking and skiing through 3 feet of powder...but did they turn the lifts, nope.  

 

Think about it this way...there's a limited number of skiers this time of year.  It is not lucrative.  Killington and Sunday River have sort of made a name for themselves for being open early.  Heck, they probably lose money but have decided that is how they want to operate and I'm sure they've got it pretty dialed in on how to possibly even make a small profit.  So say you have 2-4 mountains open and those mountains can eat up the skier demand for this time of year.  If there were 10 mountains open, then that's way too much supply for the demand right now.   

 

All people do on SM is complain these days it seems, lol.  

 

Yep, it's enabled a whole new generation of DB's.  I'm sure you guys see it all the time.

 

I do think you guys are underestimating early season demand.  Great time to go as many kids are between sports right now.  Pre holiday season, holiday season parties etc.  I'm going to ski every weekend I can before Xmas.  Cheaper and fewer people.  

 

I was shocked PF by the number of people at SR.  I think they were shocked too.

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powderfreak

powderfreak

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Yep, it's enabled a whole new generation of DB's.  I'm sure you guys see it all the time.

 

I do think you guys are underestimating early season demand.  Great time to go as many kids are between sports right now.  Pre holiday season, holiday season parties etc.  I'm going to ski every weekend I can before Xmas.  Cheaper and fewer people.  

 

I was shocked PF by the number of people at SR.  I think they were shocked too.

 

Yeah I think you are probably right that there is the demand there... but its much easier for a mountain that is within day trip distance of a population center.  Most of northern VT resorts are sort of out of that day-trip range (Montreal is probably the closest at about 2 hours away), as everyone that skis in BTV either has a pass or some other way of skiing without buying day tickets.  The vast majority of the skiers up here spend at least one night in Stowe, as the day trip is tough once you get to the 3hr range each way.  That seems to require a little more planning, reservations, etc, and if the mountain posts its opening date as X, people start booking hotel rooms for nights after that date.  Opening a week early, on short notice, may get a few to come, but again, I think its probably a wash.

 

By far the bigger advantage of opening early is the marketing value which says "we have snow, so much of it we are opening early."  But that's just not really how it goes up here... it seems all the resorts up here from Sugarbush north have that same mentality.  Set your date and see how much you can have open on that day, vs opening as soon as you have a route available.

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Skivt2

Skivt2

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Killington is just killing it with early season attendance. Last Saturday we were hearing 3500 skiers showed up. The entire KBL parking lot was full and they had to park the cars all the way down the access road on both sides all the way down to the snowshed lodge. That's not parallel parking on the left side...it's head in. That was a LOT of cars! The lodge was full to the point where there was no where to sit at lunch. The picnic tables outside were full and so were the u-bars. There was live music in the mahogany ridge bar in the afternoon and there were many enjoying the drinking. We saw lots of paper tickets and talked to lots of people from other mountains. Most of those people were from Sugarbush, Stowe, and even quite a few from Canada. The crazy thing was that even though it was crowded on the hill there was enough trails open to be Ok. The mountain has made so much snow in the past month that its doing well weathering the short warm up/rain events. With the new influx of cold air Killington should be in awesome mid winter shape for Thanksgiving while other mountains are still trying to scrape together an "early season" few trails.

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Clinch Leatherwood

Clinch Leatherwood

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Killington is just killing it with early season attendance. Last Saturday we were hearing 3500 skiers showed up. The entire KBL parking lot was full and they had to park the cars all the way down the access road on both sides all the way down to the snowshed lodge. That's not parallel parking on the left side...it's head in. That was a LOT of cars! The lodge was full to the point where there was no where to sit at lunch. The picnic tables outside were full and so were the u-bars. There was live music in the mahogany ridge bar in the afternoon and there were many enjoying the drinking. We saw lots of paper tickets and talked to lots of people from other mountains. Most of those people were from Sugarbush, Stowe, and even quite a few from Canada. The crazy thing was that even though it was crowded on the hill there was enough trails open to be Ok. The mountain has made so much snow in the past month that its doing well weathering the short warm up/rain events. With the new influx of cold air Killington should be in awesome mid winter shape for Thanksgiving while other mountains are still trying to scrape together an "early season" few trails.

 

IMO same at Sunday River.  There were people we talked to on the lifts that had never skied there before and were coming in from southern VT and all over NE.  Some from as far away as NJ for the weekend.

 

SR and Kilington are killing it with snow making this year and people are showing up.  It isn't just a marketing thing although that is surely part of it.  We got to SR at 730 and both the main lot and the Barker lot were already full and people were parking in the satellite lots.   It may not be mid season revenue but it's certainly helping to cover their costs and it's a real bonus time of the year for me.

 

Looking now at the deflected heat this weekend....northward I go.

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ono

ono

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I dont think the locals (who support the mtn thru buying passes) would vote to hike another week, when they could enjoy lift service on a monday and get 10x the runs in relatively deep snow from a pure monetary stand point it does make plenty of sense thou, and the sheer beauty and snowfall of stowe will lead those locals to never really be piss'd off enuf (wrt not opening to leave) so its a risk free decision by the mtn

As a passholder, I gotta say people like hiking.  With the lifts running, the snow gets chewed up quickly.  Especially this time of year- the base is shallow, and the whole mountain is not skiable.  So running the lifts would both bring in more crowds, and increase the rate of degradation of a shallow snowpack.  It's hard to say, but I can't imagine what running the gondi and quad at Stowe would have done.

 

 It's nice to have space on the mountain while getting exercise/legs back under you.  If you're a pass holder, you're gonna be spending plenty of time riding the lifts, anyway- the season is pretty long in NVT (including hiking, 6 months long).  So you don't feel like you're getting the short end at all.  

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