The 2012/13 Ski Season Thread

[powderfreak]

Sunday River up over 30 trails. The snowmaking capability of these mountains increases each year. Pretty staggering.

I see Sunday River is up to 11 miles... Killington is at 14 miles....here at Stowe we are at 11.4 miles for tomorrow.

We do have some natural snow terrain open though that we'll likely lose when it warms up early this week, so Sunday River will over-take us again. They do the snowmaking thing right, especially with about half the seasonal average snowfall as the VT areas. I wish SR would list their seasonal snowfall to date on their snow report, instead of "days of snowmaking." The seasonal snowfall info would be much easier to compare to other resorts, rather than how many days they make snow.

[powderfreak]

So last night we had calm winds and were really able to see what these guns can do... these piles are 8-hours worth of run-time out of the new HKD tower guns. So in 8-hours, each gun piled up around 10 feet of snow, and they run at up to 60 gallons of water per minute (one gallon comes out of them every second). The fan guns can run up to 300 gallons a minute, lol. That's a ridiculous amount of water every minute.

8-hours of run time.

These HKD tower guns are ridiculous.... I want a couple of these in my front yard. These piles are with 48 hours run time.

A different trail after about 36 hours....make a big spine down the middle and then push it out.

One gun, 32 hours. Hard to tell exactly but its about 15 feet of snow.

Its been a great start to the season with lots of cold (-2F departure in the means) and 35" of natural snow in November on the upper mountain.

[Hitman]

What a great start to the season. Mood snow all day. Ended up with maybe an inch or so.

The whales are fun to ski.

Those hkd towers are efficient.. Use alot less air. snologic guns are insane how little air the use. When the temps are right they are almost silent.

[ChrisM]

So last night we had calm winds and were really able to see what these guns can do... these piles are 8-hours worth of run-time out of the new HKD tower guns. So in 8-hours, each gun piled up around 10 feet of snow, and they run at up to 60 gallons of water per minute (one gallon comes out of them every second). The fan guns can run up to 300 gallons a minute, lol. That's a ridiculous amount of water every minute.

8-hours of run time.

These HKD tower guns are ridiculous.... I want a couple of these in my front yard. These piles are with 48 hours run time.

A different trail after about 36 hours....make a big spine down the middle and then push it out.

One gun, 32 hours. Hard to tell exactly but its about 15 feet of snow.

Its been a great start to the season with lots of cold (-2F departure in the means) and 35" of natural snow in November on the upper mountain.

I would just do backflip after backflip my goodness

[Clinch Leatherwood]

I see Sunday River is up to 11 miles... Killington is at 14 miles....here at Stowe we are at 11.4 miles for tomorrow.

We do have some natural snow terrain open though that we'll likely lose when it warms up early this week, so Sunday River will over-take us again. They do the snowmaking thing right, especially with about half the seasonal average snowfall as the VT areas. I wish SR would list their seasonal snowfall to date on their snow report, instead of "days of snowmaking." The seasonal snowfall info would be much easier to compare to other resorts, rather than how many days they make snow.

It's just staggering to me how much snow you guys can produce. How much real snow has fallen this fall? Definitely under a foot or so yet on many trails it's mid season goodness.

I saw the story someone posted about ski resorts later this century. Interesting. But something tells me as long as it is still cool they'll do fine.

Very little natural snow and many of the resorts have plenty of open terrain. Good stuff.

[powderfreak]

It's just staggering to me how much snow you guys can produce. How much real snow has fallen this fall? Definitely under a foot or so yet on many trails it's mid season goodness.

I saw the story someone posted about ski resorts later this century. Interesting. But something tells me as long as it is still cool they'll do fine.

Very little natural snow and many of the resorts have plenty of open terrain. Good stuff.

We just had an awesome powder day with 8-13 inches (base to summit) falling in 36 hours and 21" above 3,000ft in the last week.

My monthly total was 35" up top, and 19" at the base. Natural snow depth is 13" above 3,000ft and 9" at 1,500ft.

This was yesterday... you can see some grass poking through, but this is all natural snow (the ungroomed portion). So there definitely has been some snowfall (also check out the powder day pictures above in the thread).

Here's how November stacks up to the past 5 years...throw in below normal temps and its been a great start to the season.

Now I want another 100-inch or more month of snowfall...Dec 2007 and Jan 2009 type months.

[adk]

We just had an awesome powder day with 8-13 inches (base to summit) falling in 36 hours and 21" above 3,000ft in the last week.

My monthly total was 35" up top, and 19" at the base. Natural snow depth is 13" above 3,000ft and 9" at 1,500ft.

This was yesterday... you can see some grass poking through, but this is all natural snow (the ungroomed portion). So there definitely has been some snowfall (also check out the powder day pictures above in the thread).

Here's how November stacks up to the past 5 years...throw in below normal temps and its been a great start to the season.

Now I want another 100-inch or more month of snowfall...Dec 2007 and Jan 2009 type months.

I agree. November has been fantastic. 35 inches in Nov. is a very good start to the season. Though what made it, I think, has been the consistently cold temps. Just allowed what fell to stick around, let the gound freeze up, and let mountains blow some good base snow. I've got 17 days in already....and they have all been pretty decent ski days. For a while it was perfect cold dawn cord. Lately it's been powder skiing.

Couldn't have asked for more. Now lets get through the next 3 days or so and see what the rest of december brings.

[N. OF PIKE]

its amazing how they recorded 372 with only 12 of that in april. probably 400+ in the calendar year.

non crystaline precip falling currently in stowe lol.

[Clinch Leatherwood]

PF but what your one mountain gets isn't reflective of the other 95% of ski areas from MA to ME would you agree? I doubt Loon/SR/Wildcat/Cannon/Attitash/Wachusett/Berkshire East/MRG have had a ton of snow this winter unless I've missed it. I think most everyone is relying on the manmade stuff.

[adk]

PF but what your one mountain gets isn't reflective of the other 95% of ski areas from MA to ME would you agree? I doubt Loon/SR/Wildcat/Cannon/Attitash/Wachusett/Berkshire East/MRG have had a ton of snow this winter unless I've missed it. I think most everyone is relying on the manmade stuff.

This is true. Hence why PF and I ski there.

[MarkO]

Anyone have any knowledge of snowmaking costs? Im looking for production costs i.e. electric kwhr/acre.foot or something?

[powderfreak]

PF but what your one mountain gets isn't reflective of the other 95% of ski areas from MA to ME would you agree? I doubt Loon/SR/Wildcat/Cannon/Attitash/Wachusett/Berkshire East/MRG have had a ton of snow this winter unless I've missed it. I think most everyone is relying on the manmade stuff.

Oh yeah I agree... but Jay Peak/Smuggs/Bolton and to a lesser degree Sugarbush/MRG all get similar snowfall. Sugarbush got almost 2 feet of natural snow in November, so I'd assume MRG was similar as they are right next door.

But you are right in that we are all still relying on man-made snow... but it is not like it hasn't snowed. However, snowfall so far has been proportional to annual averages. With Killington seeing around a foot, Sugarbush/MRG area around two feet, and then the next tier of Stowe/Smuggs/Jay seeing more like two and a half to three feet.

I really don't follow snowfall in NH or ME as closely, so can't really comment, and its also harder to find that seasonal snowfall data on some of the NH/ME ski area websites.

[powderfreak]

This is true. Hence why PF and I ski there.

A little better than Philly huh?

Last season was a dud, but glad you are now getting to see what a good start to a season is.

[N. OF PIKE]

This is true. Hence why PF and I ski there.

it's never snowless in the N greens in winter. Maine can blow, and NH can suck, but the greens can and will snow, its automatic.

[subdude]

We just had an awesome powder day with 8-13 inches (base to summit) falling in 36 hours and 21" above 3,000ft in the last week.

My monthly total was 35" up top, and 19" at the base. Natural snow depth is 13" above 3,000ft and 9" at 1,500ft.

This was yesterday... you can see some grass poking through, but this is all natural snow (the ungroomed portion). So there definitely has been some snowfall (also check out the powder day pictures above in the thread).

Here's how November stacks up to the past 5 years...throw in below normal temps and its been a great start to the season.

Now I want another 100-inch or more month of snowfall...Dec 2007 and Jan 2009 type months.

very respectable numbers for Nov. Sounds like awesome early season conditions right now.

[subdude]

Skied Wawa today. Good coverage on their two trails but was so hard packed

with some icy spots.

Cool, my son went Sat said it was good for the 2nd day of opening. I was going to go Sun but had a minor setback when I partially amputated my fingertip Sat afternoon they reattached it back on with 9 stitches so i'm out of action for a few weeks.

[#NoPoles]

Cool, my son went Sat said it was good for the 2nd day of opening. I was going to go Sun but had a minor setback when I partially amputated my fingertip Sat afternoon they reattached it back on with 9 stitches so i'm out of action for a few weeks.

oh dang, that sucks! i have coupons for free lift tix i need to use up...figured i'd go and use one on opening day...it did get a little boring skiing on two trail for 6hrs...called it quits at 3pm instead of 4pm...now we have to endure a minor weather setback...all we can do is wait it out...

[Clinch Leatherwood]

Oh yeah I agree... but Jay Peak/Smuggs/Bolton and to a lesser degree Sugarbush/MRG all get similar snowfall. Sugarbush got almost 2 feet of natural snow in November, so I'd assume MRG was similar as they are right next door.

But you are right in that we are all still relying on man-made snow... but it is not like it hasn't snowed. However, snowfall so far has been proportional to annual averages. With Killington seeing around a foot, Sugarbush/MRG area around two feet, and then the next tier of Stowe/Smuggs/Jay seeing more like two and a half to three feet.

I really don't follow snowfall in NH or ME as closely, so can't really comment, and its also harder to find that seasonal snowfall data on some of the NH/ME ski area websites.

PF just screwing around. This is a vastly different year than last. Look at even SR which I think has only had a few inches...almost 35 trails as of today. 3 years ago they had 55 NYE and that was "good" against their average. The torch is going to slow things down again but they'll have 70 trails open by 1/1 I bet and most resorts in the northern tier will have a similar percentage is my guess vs their totals.

If I lived closer I'd be up there skiing now. really looking forward to it this year and judging by how difficult it is to find open places so is everyone else. Big year incoming for ski country unless for some reason the weather really went bad which looks unlikely.

[Hitman]

Anyone have any knowledge of snowmaking costs? Im looking for production costs i.e. electric kwhr/acre.foot or something?

not that I have any real knowledge, but the costs vary widely depending on the wet bulb temperatures and the type of equipment used. my understanding is that under optimal conditions those hkd guns use less than a third of the air the old guns did. snowlogic guns use 5% of that. so depending on the equipment, vastly different amounts of compressed air is required and thus different amounts of energy.

[powderfreak]

not that I have any real knowledge, but the costs vary widely depending on the wet bulb temperatures and the type of equipment used. my understanding is that under optimal conditions those hkd guns use less than a third of the air the old guns did. snowlogic guns use 5% of that. so depending on the equipment, vastly different amounts of compressed air is required and thus different amounts of energy.

That's all about right. You really can't put a price on it per acre/foot because it varies so much. Any given mountain could have like 4-8 different types of guns (from fan guns to land-frames to tower guns, etc, and then different models of each from different manufacturers) which all affects cost, and then temperatures/environmental conditions are a whole other ballgame. Also depends on the type of energy you are using to run the compressors...electric, diesel, etc.

I can tell you that so far this season, Stowe has turned over 100,000,000 (yeah, one hundred million) gallons of water into snow up on the mountain. That's a lot of QPF, lol.

[powderfreak]

PF just screwing around. This is a vastly different year than last. Look at even SR which I think has only had a few inches...almost 35 trails as of today. 3 years ago they had 55 NYE and that was "good" against their average. The torch is going to slow things down again but they'll have 70 trails open by 1/1 I bet and most resorts in the northern tier will have a similar percentage is my guess vs their totals.

If I lived closer I'd be up there skiing now. really looking forward to it this year and judging by how difficult it is to find open places so is everyone else. Big year incoming for ski country unless for some reason the weather really went bad which looks unlikely.

I am still really amazed at what Sunday River can do with snowmaking... they did it right, realizing they may not get the most natural snowfall (but can preserve it better than most) but they have invested so much in snowmaking over the years that they've branded themselves as pretty much weather-proof. They get terrain open quickly and have their mountain set-up in such a way that even if it never snowed an inch all winter but was cold, they'd be 90% open by MLK weekend.

[NorEaster27]

I realy need to get out and ski stowe this year, powder any hotel recommendations besides stowe mountain lodge?

[MarkO]

The reason I bring it up cost of snow making is the place where I built my cabin has a ski area they reopened two years ago (after about 10 years non operation). It's really small, 3 trails, 1 chair and a tow rope, about 375 or so vertical feet, but it's a great location to teach the kids. Last year they decided not to open, but were considering snowmaking. The mountain gets a decent amount of natural snow because it's in the white's and it's at about 1500', but the season really only runs from January to March. I'm jsut wondering if snow making is even a viable option?

I'll be honest, the ski area is a money losing operation, so they lose money the day they write the insurance policy, but maybe somehow with snow making, they could draw enough members or locals to break even. I don't think there are not many (if any) places like this that remain in New England.

[mreaves]

The reason I bring it up cost of snow making is the place where I built my cabin has a ski area they reopened two years ago (after about 10 years non operation). It's really small, 3 trails, 1 chair and a tow rope, about 375 or so vertical feet, but it's a great location to teach the kids. Last year they decided not to open, but were considering snowmaking. The mountain gets a decent amount of natural snow because it's in the white's and it's at about 1500', but the season really only runs from January to March. I'm jsut wondering if snow making is even a viable option?

I'll be honest, the ski area is a money losing operation, so they lose money the day they write the insurance policy, but maybe somehow with snow making, they could draw enough members or locals to break even. I don't think there are not many (if any) places like this that remain in New England.

Bear with me because I am not a ski guy but I know there are a couple of places in VT that have been able to carve out a niche.

The first is Cochoran's in Richmond http://www.cochranskiarea.com/. This place is located just outside of BTV and is a non-profit organization run by the Cochoran family. I believe that there was a drive by people who use the area to put in snowmaking a few years ago. Their claim to fame is that several of the children were Olympic skiers with at least one winning a gold in the 50's or 60's.

The other place that came to mind is called Northeast Slopes http://www.northeastslopes.org/Home_Page.html. I'm not sure of their status but I believe that it is run by volunteers. Not sure if they have any snowmaking. Poster Allenson from the NNE thread lives near this place so he might know more about it.

I imagine that both of these places live on the edge year to year like many small, non-profit organizations but they both seem to survive. Hope this helps a little.

[ChrisM]

I realy need to get out and ski stowe this year, powder any hotel recommendations besides stowe mountain lodge?

I stayed at the sun and ski inn and it was cheap/sufficient.

[Clinch Leatherwood]

I am still really amazed at what Sunday River can do with snowmaking... they did it right, realizing they may not get the most natural snowfall (but can preserve it better than most) but they have invested so much in snowmaking over the years that they've branded themselves as pretty much weather-proof. They get terrain open quickly and have their mountain set-up in such a way that even if it never snowed an inch all winter but was cold, they'd be 90% open by MLK weekend.

We start skiing for real Xmas week again but I've been keeping an eye on SR. They added 4-5 more trails since yesterday. Like you said I'm shocked as well. They'll have 40 trails in a day or so.

[HoarfrostHubb]

The reason I bring it up cost of snow making is the place where I built my cabin has a ski area they reopened two years ago (after about 10 years non operation). It's really small, 3 trails, 1 chair and a tow rope, about 375 or so vertical feet, but it's a great location to teach the kids. Last year they decided not to open, but were considering snowmaking. The mountain gets a decent amount of natural snow because it's in the white's and it's at about 1500', but the season really only runs from January to March. I'm jsut wondering if snow making is even a viable option?

I'll be honest, the ski area is a money losing operation, so they lose money the day they write the insurance policy, but maybe somehow with snow making, they could draw enough members or locals to break even. I don't think there are not many (if any) places like this that remain in New England.

There are a few tiny areas around, but they are a dying breed. Snowmaking is pretty expensive and you would really need to get people to go if they wanted to break even.

I still can't believe that a place like Berkshire East can remain open... great place with good trails, good grooming, good snowmaking. But never any people there

[#NoPoles]

There are a few tiny areas around, but they are a dying breed. Snowmaking is pretty expensive and you would really need to get people to go if they wanted to break even.

I still can't believe that a place like Berkshire East can remain open... great place with good trails, good grooming, good snowmaking. But never any people there

I'm sure after last winter the Beast took it real hard on the chin...and now this December we can add insult to injury and rub salt in their wound with these 50 degree temps and fog...same with Nashoba Valley...it's hard to be the little guy...a cruel cruel world...

[N. OF PIKE]

I realy need to get out and ski stowe this year, powder any hotel recommendations besides stowe mountain lodge?

if you can plan your stay like sun-wed or mid week somehow , you will get minimal crowds (on non vaction weeks) and 20% off some hotels, who are very slow mid week, but jam packed on weekends, and tons of trails with not a lot of peeps (from speaking with someone who runs a B&B, and the rental guys at stowe)

i stayed at innsbrook inn and golden eagle resort (last week) as well as ye olde english inn and the stowe inn (last year) depends if your looking for cheap, nice, closest to mountain,etc. i enjoyed the golden eagle the best, and the stowe inn the least, but i'd stay in any old hotel really, it's the GF that needs the amenities, although i love and outdoor whirlpool/jacuzzi with dancing dentrites floating on down

[MarkO]

mreaves, thanks for the info.

I'm probably going to contact the operaters at those mountains. It's not like we'd be taking away any of their customers.