NNE Feb 24-25 Secondary Cyclogenesis and Upslope Obs

[NorEaster27]

Moist cyclonic upslope flow, and probably some moisture from Champlain I would think. I'm not sure it's frozen over.

nope, def not frozen none of the big lakes in the northeast are.

[J.Spin]

I’ve put together the north to south snowfall totals I’ve seen from the Vermont ski areas for the most recent winter storm (list 1) and the sum of all three storms we’ve had since midweek (list 2).

Storm 3

Jay Peak: 40”

Smuggler’s Notch: 36”

Stowe: 36”

Bolton Valley: 24”

Mad River Glen: 20”

Sugarbush: 23”

Pico: 15”

Killington: 15”

Okemo: 6”

Bromley: 6”

Magic Mountain: 6”

Stratton: 8”

Mount Snow: 3”

Storms 1, 2 & 3 Combined

Jay Peak: 51”

Smuggler’s Notch: 46”

Stowe: 44”

Bolton Valley: 29”

Mad River Glen: 26”

Sugarbush: 28”

Pico: 17”

Killington: 17”

Okemo: 8”

Bromley: 8”

Magic Mountain: 10”

Stratton: 9”

Mount Snow: 5”

As is often the case, there’s a very clear north to south gradient for snowfall, this time with the northern resorts measuring in feet, while the southern resorts are measuring in inches. This was a great enhancement to the snow depths in the northern and central resorts, and it looks like roughly 2 inches of liquid went into the snowpack on Mansfield. You know it’s a decent storm cycle period when the depth of snowpack at the stake goes from a below average 49 inches on Wednesday, to an above average 81 inches as of today. That is one serious spike in the snowpack depth, certainly a dramatic jump in the context of the previous few months:

Ski conditions today at Stowe were excellent, and it will certainly go down as one of the top days of the season. The quality of the snow, with the dense base layer, topped off with feet of powder, was so high, that first tracks were hardly necessary (although still appreciated of course). The skiing stayed spectacular all day, and it’s hard to imagine improving on the snow quality at all. One couldn’t improve on the brilliant blue skies and sunshine either. If I had to find a way to improve upon near perfection for the sake of argument, I’d say drop the wind to zero, and raise the temperature about 5 degrees F, but that’s really splitting hairs. I added a few shots from today below:

[NorEaster27]

some pics from the central adirondacks, not PF status but good enough for me to have a great day snowmobiling:

[powderfreak]

PF, do you know what type of snowfall this was for a single event in Stowe? It must be up there, but I bet they have some 40-50" deals easily. I remember you guys always getting nailed last year, but in this winter...2-3' of snow is pretty epic, especially when it is 40:1 ratios.

I can't really say as we don't have records like that... the Mansfield Co-Op has some stuff but its atrocious. It reported 13" of snow yesterday but we got that in like 4 hours at one point yesterday.

What makes this storm epic is that it wasn't all 40:1 ratio snow. For skiing and snowboarding, the first 12" was denser, wetter synoptic snow on SEly flow off the Atlantic. We got into some good bands and it was wet snow from some warm layer aloft... plastered everything. Then the final 2 feet from like Saturday morning at 4am onward was just pure epic champagne.

So you that that 3 feet of layered feel which makes it bottomless to ski through... you just fall into the first two feet and then you have the last foot of denser stuff to stop you from hitting bottom. Throw in the 7" that fell early Thursday morning and that time period is up there in sheer quantity of snow that fell out of the sky in a 48-72 hour period.

Valentines Day I believe was similar totals if not a bit bigger, but there was a lot of wind with that one so the snow was all drifted and dense and not all that much fun to ski actually. But I do believe Valentines Day was bigger with like 3-4" of QPF falling on Mount Mansfield as snow during that one.

[powderfreak]

some pics from the central adirondacks, not PF status but good enough for me to have a great day snowmobiling:

Dude that looks like a lot of snow... how much did they get out of this storm?

[powderfreak]

As is often the case, there’s a very clear north to south gradient for snowfall, this time with the northern resorts measuring in feet, while the southern resorts are measuring in inches. This was a great enhancement to the snow depths in the northern and central resorts, and it looks like roughly 2 inches of liquid went into the snowpack on Mansfield. You know it’s a decent storm cycle period when the depth of snowpack at the stake goes from a below average 49 inches on Wednesday, to an above average 81 inches as of today. That is one serious spike in the snowpack depth, certainly a dramatic jump in the context of the previous few months:

That stake graph is awesome... that is how you recover and try to pull it together for the end of the season.

Although the top 1-2 feet were pure champagne powder that will settle, like you said, J.Spin, adding 2" of liquid to the snowpack in the form of snow is a BIG help. This storm just saved our spring skiing season. All the lines are filled now and if we get any additional snow on this its just gravy. This will settle out a bit, but 2" of liquid is still going to provide a solid 2 foot increase that will stay.

I'm doing my snow survey's today and tomorrow, so it will be interesting to see what I can come up with for liquid amounts. The problem is the 60" Adirondacks Snow Sampler isn't big enough so I'm not sure how to handle that problem...

[powderfreak]

Won't speak for PF but March 01 and Valentines day 07 come to mind quickly as similar amounts or more, but this is a biggie by any standards.

I've been skiing 100+ days per season (up to 150 like last season and on pace this season) on this mountain for 8 seasons now, and yesterday I think took the cake. There may have been bigger storms or longer duration events, but 36 inches in 36 hours is difficult to achieve. And I only cleared the snow boards once during that event so with the settling of that fluff, you can probably imagine what a storm total would've been doing it every 6 hours.

This day will be remember for a long time. Every local skier I talked to was saying all-time... not just this is good, but this is all-time. Quality of the snow, quantity, and then bluebird sunshine? Forget it. Just doesn't happen in the east.

If you were there today... you can say you hit the best ski day all around in years.

[adk]

I've been skiing 100+ days per season (up to 150 like last season and on pace this season) on this mountain for 8 seasons now, and yesterday I think took the cake. There may have been bigger storms or longer duration events, but 36 inches in 36 hours is difficult to achieve. And I only cleared the snow boards once during that event so with the settling of that fluff, you can probably imagine what a storm total would've been doing it every 6 hours.

This day will be remember for a long time. Every local skier I talked to was saying all-time... not just this is good, but this is all-time. Quality of the snow, quantity, and then bluebird sunshine? Forget it. Just doesn't happen in the east.

If you were there today... you can say you hit the best ski day all around in years.

I had the single best run of my life yesterday. PF knows who I was with but "friends" and I skinned up stowe early on sunday. After destroying that MTN on saturday (and setting of a VERY sizable avalanche that stepped down through all the storm snow) we didn't expect to find much new at the top. We got to the BC access "gate" and all our tracks were gone. "WHAAAA?" We then proceeded to break trail through at least two feet of new snow (new since 3pm saturday). It took three very strong guys only about 20 minutes to become exhausted breaking the trail out. Yet we eventually arrived at our destination. And for the first time ever had to POLE through the start of almost always packed out well known BC run. Through a twist of fate, I got to go first and proceeded to get faceshot after faceshot after faceshot. I was spitting out powder as I dropped through the drainage. It was deep on saturday. Yesterday it was absurd.

After working through that and almost crying with joy at the bottom, we tooled around a few spots the rest of the day, repeating the process of absurd faceshot under blue bird skies. If I don't ski again the rest of the season it has been a success. That was unreal.

There was by pole measurement 4 to 4.5 feet of total storm snow deposited along the east facing high elevations. It's settling now with the sun from yesterday but it is still VERY VERY touchy. Everything I touched on saturday wanted to slide and most did. (PF you commented on one of the larger ones we set off...) Going out into a drainage that ends in cliffs without knowing where your safe zones are and without proper avy awareness will get you hurt.

[powderfreak]

ADK... was the Balls Falls avalanche natural or do you know if someone triggered that? Also looks like the Rock Garden slid at the top. But that Balls Falls avalanche was huge for our standards. That whole apron released it looked like overnight and the crown line looked big from the Quad. You'd be screwed if you were under that...pinned against trees and thrown through rubble and rock. That must've been impressive if anyone saw that go wall to wall right up to the cliff. That's like a parking lot sized block of snow releasing and pouring through the forest.

[adk]

ADK... was the Balls Falls avalanche natural or do you know if someone triggered that? Also looks like the Rock Garden slid at the top. But that Balls Falls avalanche was huge for our standards. That whole apron released it looked like overnight and the crown line looked big from the Quad. You'd be screwed if you were under that...pinned against trees and thrown through rubble and rock. That must've been impressive if anyone saw that go wall to wall right up to the cliff. That's like a parking lot sized block of snow releasing and pouring through the forest.

ummmmm.....yea...somebody triggered it....it broke on the first turn and went all the way around under the falls and around the edge. It was very large.

[tamarack]

Won't speak for PF but March 01 and Valentines day 07 come to mind quickly as similar amounts or more, but this is a biggie by any standards.

Most I could find from the co-op records (and PF has shown us how "reliable" those numbers are) from UCC was 36" from VD '07. I'm surprised at how modest that is, for a snowcatcher mt location, especially considering that Pinkham Notch measured 77" (and snow depth over 150") from the late Feb 1969 event. MWN got something like 98" from that storm, with almost 15" LE at temps singles/teens. Long Falls Dam in Maine, at a relatively modest 1,160', recorded 56" from that critter.

[dwang0725]

My son was on his winter break this past week and we decided to give Stowe a try. I stressed to him before departing that this season has been an anomoly as far as snow goes for Stowe (Mansfield stake was reporting 43") and not to be disappointed if the conditions were not up to par (NWS forecast was calling for snow/rain mix all week). Well, after riding in 8" of powder all day on Thursday (the best riding conditions he's ever been in) he turns to me and says, "What were you talking about the conditions not being up to par?" I laughed and told him that there might be even more on Friday/Saturday. The rest is history.

Needless to say, after Saturday's experience, we will never forget the "bad" conditions at Stowe. The conditions were epic. I have never experienced anything close to that. Riding through that deep of powder is so serene and quiet. The feeling is unreal.

[radarman]

Most I could find from the co-op records (and PF has shown us how "reliable" those numbers are) from UCC was 36" from VD '07. I'm surprised at how modest that is, for a snowcatcher mt location, especially considering that Pinkham Notch measured 77" (and snow depth over 150") from the late Feb 1969 event. MWN got something like 98" from that storm, with almost 15" LE at temps singles/teens. Long Falls Dam in Maine, at a relatively modest 1,160', recorded 56" from that critter.

Definitely seems like they err heavily conservative, unlike Jay Peak for instance... (although gun to head I'd still say Jay gets the most snow)

What did the records show for March 7th last year and March '01?

[powderfreak]

Definitely seems like they err heavily conservative, unlike Jay Peak for instance... (although gun to head I'd still say Jay gets the most snow)

What did the records show for March 7th last year and March '01?

Yeah, Jay definitely gets the most snow. However from talking with the NWS, the Jay Peak Co-Op is the night audit staff at the hotel. The Co-Op location has also moved around a bunch due to the recent construction at Jay Peak. The NWS guys say generally its accurate but should be taken with some caution as they feel sometimes it is high.

The opposite is the Mansfield Co-Op. The "new" snow readings are taken from a standard 8-inch rain gage. Then the snow depth measurements are taken from the snow stake that is like a quarter mile away. They are not from the same location. The "new" snowfall totals are so flawed that it honestly cannot be taken seriously. Do you know how hard it is to get snow to fall into an 8-inch rain gage when it is coming down on 50 mile per hour winds? Its almost impossible. Which is why they record around half of the actual snowfall.

This past storm is a perfect example of why measuring snow in something like a large tennis ball container on a wind-swept rock is not going to be as good as on a snow board in a clearing of a dense forest blocking the wind. Yesterday they reported 5" of new snow, but the snow depth increased 14". Figure that one out.

[sgottmann]

Powderfreak, ADK, JSPIN;

Thanks for the reports, picutres and information regarding the past storm. The photos of face shots and cliff snorkelling are awesome. I was at Sugarbush. While the snow and conditions were great (best of the year), they were not epic like you described. I only wish I drove an hour north to indulge. Simply incredible, especially for this year.

Any thoughts on this week's potential storm? Any signals for some more upslope Thursday?

[adk]

Powderfreak, ADK, JSPIN;

Thanks for the reports, picutres and information regarding the past storm. The photos of face shots and cliff snorkelling are awesome. I was at Sugarbush. While the snow and conditions were great (best of the year), they were not epic like you described. I only wish I drove an hour north to indulge. Simply incredible, especially for this year.

Any thoughts on this week's potential storm? Any signals for some more upslope Thursday?

There will be some additional pretty epic pictures coming. I've seen 'em. They are absurd.

Midweek is too soon to tell. Energy ejecting from the west, deepening out over the plains. Could move through as one large storm complex with a halfway developed coastal low working to keep upper elevation cool air in place. Or it could split off and fizzle into a rain event.

[powderfreak]

There will be some additional pretty epic pictures coming. I've seen 'em. They are absurd.

Midweek is too soon to tell. Energy ejecting from the west, deepening out over the plains. Could move through as one large storm complex with a halfway developed coastal low working to keep upper elevation cool air in place. Or it could split off and fizzle into a rain event.

Huh? I see no way that the Wed/Thurs event could rain. What are you seeing?

FYI- Props where props are due... you went ballz to the wallz with this last storm and even you were too low. My 8-15" storm total forecast was a joke, lol.

[powderfreak]

I posted some of these in the Feb Banter thread... but the two of the mountain I didn't.

In town we had a solid 18-20 inches... its settling but still looks nice out there.

Up at the mountain... its just ridiculous looking and amazing to think where we were one week ago and where we are now. 44 inches at the 3,000ft snow board in a 4 day period will do that.

Its hard to tell because of the exposure and flat light, but the groomers are now cutting trenches where the ski trails are. There's like a 3-4 foot wall where they cut into the bank on the High Road near my snow stake. They have a lot of cutting to do over the next several days to clean up the trails a bit.

[adk]

Huh? I see no way that the Wed/Thurs event could rain. What are you seeing?

FYI- Props where props are due... you went ballz to the wallz with this last storm and even you were too low. My 8-15" storm total forecast was a joke, lol.

So my concern is that as the primary low deepens it spins off a coastal low that skirts to the south and east. The old primary still has enough strength to pull in a fair amount of low level warm air into the system before it moves through. While I don't think there is anyway for it to be a rain event in total, I can see away for rain, sleet and ice to work into the system. I dunno. Still feel good however for a 6-12 overall snowfall.

We were both too low. Easily 40 inches above the gondi.

[dendrite]

32.7F...torch fail today after a high of only 36F.

[nzucker]

32.7F...torch fail today after a high of only 36F.

Wow, I made it to 47F here in the Monadnocks. Went for a run in shorts.

[powderfreak]

32.7F...torch fail today after a high of only 36F.

Yeah definitely didn't get as warm as progged... high is only 32F so far. Been sitting at freezing for the past couple hours. No melting and only some settling of the new snow.

Amazing because the Champlain Valley was 38-43F late this afternoon while east of the Spine held right at freezing.

[NorEaster27]

Dude that looks like a lot of snow... how much did they get out of this storm?

Probably 10 inches of wet snow with lake effect on top, but they had a good amount of snow on groud. Central dacks hold the snow as good as anywhere else and this place west of indian lake and east of inlet is in the high ground with an average elevation of 2k

[eyewall]

Pics from Bolton yesterday I was thrilled to get some skiing in on an epic day!

[Organizing Low]

picked up another couple inches in ottawa today, incluiding a heavy burst, just a picturesque scene out there and looking forward to the drive back to VT in the AM, will certainly be more than my drive the othe day.

[powderfreak]

Awesome shots Eyewall!

[eyewall]

Awesome shots Eyewall!

Thank you! probably some of the best conditions I have ever skied. I wish I didn't have to go home last night .

[J.Spin]

Awesome shots Eyewall!

Indeed, love those evergreens just loaded with snow, glad you had a good time!

[J.Spin]

Powderfreak, ADK, JSPIN;

Thanks for the reports, pictures and information regarding the past storm. The photos of face shots and cliff snorkeling are awesome. I was at Sugarbush. While the snow and conditions were great (best of the year), they were not epic like you described. I only wish I drove an hour north to indulge. Simply incredible, especially for this year.

Oftentimes the ‘bush and MRG in the North-Central Greens will cash in similarly to the resorts in the Northern Greens, although the Northern Greens will sometimes stand out in these upslope events as was the case this time. It’s one of the reasons that the resorts north of I-89 (Northern Greens) have annual snowfall averages of 300”+, while the resorts south of I-89 (Central Greens) has annual snowfall totals under 300”. For this past storm cycle there was actually a pretty sharp drop off south of Stowe, and even though Bolton Valley is north of I-89, the snow totals there fell more in line with Mad River Glen and Sugarbush. The North to south list of storm totals, with the line indicating the I-89/Route 2/Winooski Valley corridor which divides the Northern Greens from the Central Greens is below:

Jay Peak: 40”

Smuggler’s Notch: 36”

Stowe: 36”

Bolton Valley: 24”

----------------------------

Mad River Glen: 20”

Sugarbush: 23”

It’s so great that you were able to get out for the storm though, certainly a day not to be missed.

Any thoughts on this week's potential storm? Any signals for some more upslope Thursday?

The guys are talking about it in the NNE thread; ctsnowstorm just put up his current detailed forecast for the event starting tomorrow.